Improving melee for a cleric

Warpiglet

Adventurer
I am about to venture into the realm of the cleric. As with warlocks, I greatly prefer melee focus. I understand other choices might be "better" from an optimization perspective but this is the class and the focus for me.

i would like some suggestions about making a better melee focused cleric. I had a tempest cleric get to fifth level. I am more interested in war cleric or arcana cleric.

i have the stats to do a strength based cleric and prefer to wear heavy armor.

thus, some options I thought of included heavily armored for the arcana cleric and or weapon master for heavy weapons.

for a war cleric I considered Magic initiate for melee cantrips (and maybe a familiar)?

One big issue in any case is bonus actions with extra attacks from war cleric competing with spiritual weapon and melee cantrips meaning no "attack action."

I want to focus on melee much of the time...but am not wanting to be another class or multiclassing. Racial, feat and score placement suggestions welcome. Any fun fluff ideas gratefully accepted too.

it is possible there will not be a martial and I would like the cleric to be able to fill that role as needed albeit less effectively than some martial would (I want to roleplay cleric). As good as they can be, don't want a blasting cleric either....

thanks in advance for some fun ideas!
 

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mortwatcher

Explorer
take nature cleric, take shillelagh, melee greatly improved and the heavy armor thing is still there
also not as MAD

e: down the road, take magic initiate and get BB/GFB for more melee enhancing
 

GlassJaw

Hero
Forge from XGtE makes for a good tank. You get some good spells for melee and extra damage at level 8.

Life is solid too. They can hang out in melee and keep their allies alive. You also get extra damage at level 8.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
What's the level range? If you're going to primarily be in Tier 2 or higher, I'd make a different recommendation than if you're going to spend a lot of sessions in Tier 1. To my mind, a satisfying build progression is more important than reaching a good end-game state.
 

toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
I've had two campaigns now with War Clerics, and I allowed one of those players to "respec" to get her character like she envisioned: on the front lines making holy hell. In short, they "boost" a lot with concentration spells and rely little on wisdom, two things she wasn't doing.

1. Wisdom doesn't matter much. I know, it goes against the grain to play a cleric with a 12-14 Wisdom. But, in 5th, it doesn't give you extra spells, and you shouldn't be casting spells that require a save. You're about making yourself and allies powerful. Wisdom has no impact on buffing spells.
2. Strength is your #1 attribute. Then Con, then Wisdom. Dexterity won't matter if you can wear heavy armor.
3. Concentration is big. You need Concentration spells to be effective as a war cleric. These boost your attacks, damage, armor class, whatever the situation demands. You want to have a variety and be able to keep them going if hit, so don't ignore your CON saves. That's where our "respec" player went wrong. She was relatively new to 5th and Concentration spells, and she was neglecting them. Even if you're not leading the way in combat damage, your Bless spell will ensure better success for your allies, so spread the love and view any hits they get because of your boosts as your contribution. Along this line, if you are allowed to have Feats, consider taking War Caster to help with Concentration saves at 8th level (enemies aren't doing enough damage at lower levels to justify it over an ability boost).
4. Look for spells that aren't concentration but have durations (e.g. Aid). Because you can only have 1 concentration spell active, you need things that help but don't require saves.
5. Avoid save spells. You're not going to be effective doing that. Avoid spells that rely on your casting attribute for attacks like Spiritual Weapon because that's based off Wisdom. If you need, reserve it for that time you need a ranged attack option.

Our war clerics often waded in with Bless (against hard to hit foes) or Divine Favor (war cleric, for extra damage) and the like. Several of the buff spells are "bonus" action, and our war clerics learned to create spell lists that had a pretty even mix of concentration, bonus, and situational spells.

Finally, add some flavor, like corny catchphrases from the movies ("he lost his head," "he had to split") or religious dogma ("I've got a little present from Torm for you..."). Make your character lift off the paper and be more than the numbers.
 

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
for a war cleric I considered Magic initiate for melee cantrips (and maybe a familiar)?

Magic Initiate (Wizard) is a great choice for a melee cleric, to get BB/GFB and another utility cantrip of your choice, plus 1/day Find Familiar or Absorb Elements.

One big issue in any case is bonus actions with extra attacks from war cleric competing with spiritual weapon and melee cantrips meaning no "attack action."

Yep. This is why a different type of Cleric with access to a melee cantrip is often a better option for a melee cleric than a War Cleric. Clerics have better things to do with their bonus actions than taking a measly 3-5 extra attacks per day. War's infrequent +10 to hit isn't all that useful either.

Arcana isn't the best option either. Yes, it's an easy way to get you one or both melee cantrips at 1st level, but there are other ways to do that, and none of Arcana's other abilities or domain spells (with the exception of Magic Weapon) help you out in melee. They don't even get Heavy Armor or Martial Weapons, although I suppose you could get by in a pinch with a 14 DEX and medium armor, plus some racial martial weapon proficiencies from being a Dwarf or Elf. Still not ideal, though.


When deciding on a subclass for a melee cleric, you'll want to start by looking for Cleric subclasses with Divine Strike at 8th level to add damage to melee, not ones that get Potent Spellcasting to add damage to cantrips. Subclasses with Divine Strike are Death, Forge, Life, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, and War. (Of these, Trickery is easily the weakest, since it adds Poison damage, to which enemies are commonly resistant/immune.) Then narrow it down from there to subclasses that have other abilities that are further beneficial to a melee fighter.

Forge has a number of great abilities and domain spells that help boost your defensive and melee capabilities. The only real downside to Forge on a melee cleric is that they don't get any Martial weapon proficiencies. However, that can be partly mitigated with racial weapon proficiencies from something like Elf or Dwarf, and/or by using your Blessing of the Forge ability to give your weapon +1 to damage. The difference in average damage between some Simple and Martial weapons, especially one-handed weapons, is typically only 1 point anyway. For example, a Mace, Handaxe, or one-handed Spear doing 1d6+1 damage with Blessing of the Forge has the same average damage as a one-handed Warhammer, Battleaxe, or Longsword's 1d8 damage. But that does mean no Greatsword/Greataxe/etc... (Though you'll probably be wanting a one handed weapon and a shield on a melee cleric anyway, even if you do have Martial weapon proficiency.)

Tempest is also a good choice, with not only good armor/weapon selection and Divine Strike, but also a nifty reaction ability to damage melee attackers. It also allows you to mix it up with some effective AOE on top of your melee ability, making you better than a straight melee combatant against masses of weaker enemies. (I think Tempest makes some of the very best melee clerics, but I understand wanting to try something different, having already played a Tempest Cleric recently.)

A Nature Cleric can also be solid, with both Heavy Armor and access to Shillelagh so club/quarterstaff attacks are magical, do d8 damage like Martial one-handed weapons, and key off WIS. This means you don't have worry much about DEX or STR and can focus on CON/WIS instead. You can even cast Shillelagh plus a melee cantrip together in the same round, so it's not like you have to spend a round getting your melee attack ready. Plus they get a wide selection of elemental damage types to add to your melee strikes at 8th level, allowing you to tailor your bonus damage around the enemies' resistances/vulnerabilities. (The downside is that Nature's domain spells aren't very useful, at least for melee.)


No matter what, you'll want to take Warcaster at 4th level, to allow you to use your melee cantrip on Opportunity Attacks, boost your Concentration saves, and cast while wielding both a shield and weapon.


As for races, a Variant Human could take Magic Initiate right off the bat, or take War Caster at 1st and then Magic Initiate at 4th.

Hill Dwarf is a solid choice for a melee cleric, with bonuses to CON and WIS, extra HP each level, and no decrease in speed when wearing heavy armor so you don't necessarily need a high STR. It also gets proficiency in Martial hammers and axes, which helps on a Forge cleric. But you'll still be having to spend a feat on Magic Initiate, which means delaying taking War Caster and your ASIs by 4 levels.

For something a little different, you could also try a High Elf, taking BB/GFB as your racial cantrip, so you wouldn't be reliant on spending a feat to get access to a melee cantrip. You'd also get proficiency in some Martial swords and bows, if you don't get that from your subclass. DEX and INT bonuses usually aren't very helpful for a melee cleric, but this opens up the ability to go for a DEX-based High Elf Cleric, with Light or Medium armor and a Finesse weapon. Forge wouldn't be quite as optimal for that route, since a couple of their abilities center around wearing Heavy Armor, but it still has some other good stuff going for it even for a Light/Medium armor character. And some of the other subclasses would excel as a DEX-based Cleric.

(Come to think of it, a Dex-based High Elf Tempest Cleric with Booming Blade and a Rapier seems like a nifty and thematically-consistent basis for a character. Or take Spell Sniper and use Booming Blade at 10 feet with a finessed Whip for extra style!)
 
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Volund

Explorer
Tempest cleric with booming blade would be my first choice, but my next choice would be a hill dwarf nature cleric for all the reasons mentioned above. I'd start with 10/14/16/8/16/10 for my hill dwarf stats. 12 hp at first level + 9hp/level - you'll keep pace with every melee class but barbarians. Doesn't sacrifice WIS at the expense of a STR/DEX attack stat, which is important because without extra attacks you'll need spiritual weapon to keep up. IMO a melee cleric is decent even at Tier 3 with a 16 STR, but a cleric without high WIS is not great. You'll still want a decent save DC for cleric staples like spirit guardians or banishment. Get War Caster or Resilient(CON) ASAP, and then use ASI's to boost WIS.

With a hill dwarf I wouldn't worry about Magic Initiate; I don't think it's worth delaying War Caster or WIS ASI's. By 5th level you can have a d8+4 Shillelagh attack, a d8+4 spiritual weapon attack, and 3d8 spirit guardians with DC 15 all going at once if you really need to pour on the damage. If you do want BB, then High Elf or Variant Human/Magic Initiate are the way to go, but in that case I would build a tempest cleric for the Destructive Wrath max thunder damage when your BB crits. (Don't take GFB from Magic Initiate because its spellcasting ability will be INT/CHA so in all likelihood you won't have the stats for a damage bonus to the adjacent enemy.)

Here's a different take on a melee cleric build: focus on holding the line and absorbing melee attacks instead of damage output. A hill dwarf cleric can make an excellent defensive tank, just taking up space on the front line and being hard to hit. AC18/Sanctuary/Dodge Action while keeping Bless up on your allies is a great combo. For extra tankiness take the dwarven fortitude feat so you can heal yourself by expending hit dice while dodging.
 

CTurbo

Explorer
I have played a Dex Tempest with Spell Sniper + Booming Blade + Whip to great effect and I have played a High Str 2 handed weapon Tempest Cleric too. Both were a lot of fun for sure.

The High Str Tempest had Warcaster, Magic Initiate(Booming Blade), and Sentinel and was a melee monster, but also benefited from rolled stats. I was also erroneously using Divine Strike with my reaction attack though. That was an oops on all of our parts.

So yeah I do believe that Tempest is best for melee but if you're wanting to try something different, War or Nature would probably be the pick.

I have seen a GWM War Cleric be effective. Bless cancels out some of the -5 to hit. You'd definitely want Sentinel. I just don't care for War because Spiritual Weapon is usually a superior option for bonus action.

Nature as mentioned above can be good too with a staff. Thorn Whip is fun too.

Either way, a melee Cleric is going to want these things-

1. Warcaster
2. Booming Blade
3. Sentinel
 



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