Why deciding to round down multiclassing spellcaster levels was stupid

Ristamar said:

We're discussing a game steeped in sacred cows and quirky legacies.

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Sacred cows are good only for steaks.

Yunru said:

Sacred cows are good only for steaks.

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If that's your pet peeve, then you're clearly playing the wrong game, sir.

Blue said:

Because no where else in 5e do you get worse at something you've already been able to do because you took a later option at a later time. Levelling is seen as both a reward and as getting more powerful. Losing part of what you "spent" a level on previously when you take a new level is against both of those.

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Yeah, that's the assertion I'm trying to challenge. Why is that bad? Sure, it's bad with something like hit points or proficiency bonus because every class always gets that, but why is it necessarily bad in all cases?

How often does it actually come up? First, you've got to have an off-level half-caster or third-caster, and you must be multiclassing into a class that also has Spellcasting but isn't a full caster at an off level. Remember:

Players Handbook said:

Once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the [multiclass spellcasting rules]. If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules described in that class.

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So a Paladin 3/Ranger 1 still uses single class calculations because the Spellcasting feature comes from level 2. So does a Paladin 3/"Eldritch Knight" (Fighter) 2.

Actually... wait. Where do the "lost" spell slots happen again? If you're Paladin 3/Fighter 2, you've got Paladin 3 (equivalent to multiclass caster 2). Paladin 3/EK 3, you've got multiclass caster 2. If you're Paladin 3/Ranger 1, you're got Paladin 3 (equivalent to multiclass caster 2). If you're Paladin 3/Ranger 2, you're got multiclass caster 2. Yeah, you don't progress as fast as single class, but where do we go backwards again?

Is this really that narrow? Like, sure, Paladin 3/Ranger 3 and EK 5/Paladin 3 are wonky. How often does that really come up? It also doesn't make sense that a Fighter 4/Paladin 4[/Barbarian 4/Ranger 4] doesn't have Extra Attack. Or that Fighter 3/Paladin 3 has zero Ability Score Increases. Multiclassing is wonky because it's an adjunct rule and has lots of hidden disadvantages. Didn't we already know that?

Yeah, it looks real bad at Ranger 3/Paladin 3/Eldritch Knight 5/Arcane Trickster 5, but that can be fixed simply by ruling that you round down after you've added all the levels up: 3/2 + 3/2 + 5/3 + 5/3 = 6.33 = 6 instead of 3/2 + 3/2 + 5/3 + 5/3 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4. And it's way outside reality anyways.

Mistwell said:

Why shouldn't they? Particularly with the flavor of the Paladin class, I'd say that may be quite fair for leaving the path of the Paladin for another.

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Okay, I'm going to leave aside value judgements, because this will affect a fighter (EK) / wizard just as much as a paladin / warlock, and address this just from a 5e paradigm.

"Why shouldn't they" - because they do it no where else. There is no where that you lose functionality of a class level you have already invested because you take a level of another class.

Also, full casters and non-casters aren't losing power in already invested levels by multiclassing.

Bacon Bits said:

Actually... wait. Where do the "lost" spell slots happen again? If you're Paladin 3/Fighter 2, you've got Paladin 3 (equivalent to multiclass caster 2).

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I think you are missing the rules in the multiclassing.

A paladin 3 has three 1st level slots.

A paladin 3 / fighter 2 counts "...half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes...", so they are the equivalent of a 1st level full caster which only has two 1st level spell slots.

Blue said:

I think you are missing the rules in the multiclassing.

A paladin 3 has three 1st level slots.

A paladin 3 / fighter 2 counts "...half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes...", so they are the equivalent of a 1st level full caster which only has two 1st level spell slots.

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No, that's not right. That's why I quoted the PHB:

Players Handbook said:

If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules described in that class.

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Fighter 2 doesn't have the Spellcasting feature yet.