D&D 5E Riddles and Puzzles in Gaming and Dungeons and Dragons in particular.

KenNYC said:

I disagree completely with that. Just the opposite in fact, you trying your best to solve a puzzle or thinking or speaking on behalf of your character without the roll of a die, is truly roleplaying. You are being your character, not just consulting a piece of paper looking for a stat. You are finally playing an RPG.

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If I have an average IQ, how can I possibly solve a mental puzzle as easily as my genius level wizard? Why do we expect players to achieve mental feats their PCs could easily accomplish when we don't expect them to achieve physical feats their PCs can accomplish with ease?

Oofta said:

If I have an average IQ, how can I possibly solve a mental puzzle as easily as my genius level wizard? Why do we expect players to achieve mental feats their PCs could easily accomplish when we don't expect them to achieve physical feats their PCs can accomplish with ease?

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I don't. I was disagreeing with the person who said that your character shouldn't matter.

Please read what I said, I was supporting that your character will have resources that the player doesn't have and that they need to be realized in game.

Blue said:

I don't. I was disagreeing with the person who said that your character shouldn't matter.

Please read what I said, I was supporting that your character will have resources that the player doesn't have and that they need to be realized in game.

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It's been a long week, my post probably wasn't clear.

I would no more expect a player to have the same IQ and ability to solve a puzzle than I'd expect them to be able to bench press as much as their fighter.

In addition, some people enjoy puzzles. That's great. In my experience most people do not so be careful when using them unless you're sure it's what your group enjoys.

I used a couple of Riddles with a Sphinx, and set a time limit of 5 minutes real time if they could not figure it out. I chose some "Easy riddles" and they got 2 of them. The other part was that I had the answer to assist with the Little dungeon they were about to go through.

I think in place, and the group that you are playing with determines how easily, or hard the riddle or puzzle could be. I also allowed a "Smart" or "Wise" character to roll for instantly answering the riddle.

I had a DM add in a sudoku-like puzzle in a mansion. The PCs had to put gems in of a specific type. The PCs had to find the gems in the mansion before they could add them. It wasn't an especially difficult puzzle, but when a given gem had to be used next and the PCs didn't have that particular type of gem, they had to go searching. So, it wasn't just an individual puzzle, it was also an exploration (and some combat).

I think that when puzzles and riddles have external clues or tasks involved, and can be solved by the entire group, then it can be much better.


I also had a DM who had a puzzle that nobody in the universe except for him could solve. It was insanely obscure. That was total nonsense, but he somehow expected people to solve it.

Loathe puzzles in an RPG. Love mysteries, but, that's a different sort of thing. The second the puzzles come out, I completely check out of the game. Nothing sucks the fun out of a game faster than some riddle or puzzle to be solved.

Puzzles are a lot like labyrinths. They are a staple of the genre that do not translate into the game worth a darn. Avoid at all costs.

My current players like puzzles, so I'll drop some in from time to time. But often several sessions will pass without any. Riddles are far rarer and are likely to only be used once or twice in a campaign. I just don't think there are many good riddles that aren't already well known to people who like riddles.

The type of Puzzles I use are simple things like 3 coin slots in a metal door that require the correct sequence of coins inserted (good for lower levels when every coin counts)

Solution could be something guessable like a gold piece in each slot,
but it can be something very specific, like 2electrum pieces in the first slot, then 1 silver in the 3rd slot followed by 1 platnum in the middle slot. Which is pretty much impossible without adding other options
like maybe there's someone that knows the combination that the players could confront.
Or the sequence can be found somewhere in the dungeon, prompting further exploration.
Or players can make a skill check, if they prefer, with the level of success/failure reflected in the amount of coins it takes to solve.

I once had a pair of wooden block puzzles that are both a challenge to take apart and put back together. One I'd taken apart the other was still unsolved so I treated them as magic items, that when assembled made the person that completed the puzzle immortal. It was a side quest that didn't need to be completed, and it was pretty clear to the players that being immortal probably meant they would be trapped in the cave forever, but they all still tried.
(No one could work it out, they only spent maybe half an hour total. With one player who wasn't really interested in the puzzle explored the caves a little by himself)

Any time i can add a basic puzzle feature, like a statue that activates moving walls that open /block areas during combat the better. I'm always looking for ways to give players things to do during fights.

Hussar said:

Puzzles are a lot like labyrinths. They are a staple of the genre that do not translate into the game worth a darn. Avoid at all costs.

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True, I found this out the hard way when I created a homebrew campaign called 'Labrynthia' where all the major cities of a small island nation were massive labyrinths, some house isolated towns at their centre, others had small communities built at their edges. It didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

I do not mind using puzzles in my games. I tend to have them as obstacles that make what is past them easier if the PCs know how to solve them, or harder if they fail. I guess it is kind of like traveling in the wilderness where I make a group check to see if they get lost and have a wandering monster come along if they are lost. I try to give a clue earlier in the adventure that will help in the situation or allow a skill check to get a clue as well.

I can see where puzzles and traps overlap. A lot of times the PCs ban bypass the trap by solving a puzzle. The puzzle may not always be noticeable, think the movie Goonies where the scales on the pirate ship was trapped but the other clues earlier in the movie helped them avoid it. Same movie where the notes on the back of the map needed to be played on the bone organ could be just a skill check, like opening locks.

Oofta said:

If I have an average IQ, how can I possibly solve a mental puzzle as easily as my genius level wizard? Why do we expect players to achieve mental feats their PCs could easily accomplish when we don't expect them to achieve physical feats their PCs can accomplish with ease?

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Chances are your GM doesn't have a genius-level IQ either - so it's not like the difficulty is going to quite map that way either.

But let's unpack this a little. A character may have physical stats the player can't match, but in order to use them effectively, you're still relying on the player's ability to pick combat tactics that enable them to succeed regardless of the player's experience of personal combat. The fact that the combat system is abstract makes that possible - but do you automatically assume a skill combatant avoids movement that will trigger an Attack of Opportunity? No - you let the player make that move even though you figure a real person would avoid it.

The player's intelligence and ability at playing the game is always a major factor in their PC's success. And, honestly, it should be. There's nothing satisfying or fun about "solving" a puzzle or "beating" a challenge by making a die roll or even a few die rolls without engaging the player's intelligence, judgement, and skill. With that in mind, an intelligence check shouldn't solve a puzzle - just offer hints that will guide the players a bit.