D&D 5E 5e - Just Missing the Mark

doctorbadwolf · Feb 6, 2019

dave2008 said:
We limited a turn to 1 minute max., if we had a lot to do that session 30 seconds max. I don't know why people think 4e required long turn times, it was never an issue for us - even when we played a few epic one shots.

Oh certainly! 15 minutes is an extreme case, where rules get looked up bc the DM doesn’t want to make an off the cuff ruling on this particular case, or we fall down a rabbit hole, or people try to play the strategy mini game on someone’s turn and we aren’t in any rush.

Usually, our 4e turns took maybe a minute. Reminding the next person that they’re on deck helped.

The only real real slow down we tended to have was analysis paralysis, and we fixed that by encouraging players especially prone to it to use essentials classes.

Eventually we started moving to encounter and daily power slots, which helped people who just wanted to Split The Tree 3 times a day, or whatever.

Guest 6801328 · Feb 6, 2019

Funny it would never even occur to me to look up "Jumping" in the index. I'd flip through the book looking for the section with those kinds of rules.

Oofta · Feb 6, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
Never saw a turn take longer than about 15 minutes.

Did you play epic? An entire hour on a single persons turn may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but with resolving conditions/triggers/interrupts/action surges it could get very close to that long. We timed it a few times and a single round frequently took more than an hour at epic levels.

Which is the problem I see with the "more tactical options" argument. While I could see adding in some simple stuff, if you add in too much the game slows down to a crawl and there's no easy narrative flow. Some of the things 4E tried that may work for a computer game just don't translate well to the tabletop IMHO.

cmad1977 · Feb 6, 2019

If your looking in the books during the heat of battle you’re doing it wrong.

doctorbadwolf · Feb 6, 2019

Oofta said:
Did you play epic? An entire hour on a single persons turn may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but with resolving conditions/triggers/interrupts/action surges it could get very close to that long. We timed it a few times and a single round frequently took more than an hour at epic levels.

Which is the problem I see with the "more tactical options" argument. While I could see adding in some simple stuff, if you add in too much the game slows down to a crawl and there's no easy narrative flow. Some of the things 4E tried that may work for a computer game just don't translate well to the tabletop IMHO.

Yep, we played epic levels. Never had a turn take longer than about 15 minutes, and that was from someone spending too much time strategizing during, rather than before, their turn.

The computer game argument always makes me laugh, though. 4e doesn’t translate any better to a computer game than previous editions (or 5e for that matter). It’s 100% tabletop DnD.

cmad1977 · Feb 6, 2019

Retreater said:
There are many symptoms, which I've noticed from running 3-4 simultaneous campaigns. Granted these latest nitpicky frustrations are just the most recent (from last night's game, when I made the post).
Here are more serious complaints I've accumulated:
1. A broken CR system that creates boring or impossibly deadly encounters in equal measure.
2. A poor selection of official adventures to showcase a variety of campaigns.
3. Monsters that don't properly fulfill roles (in combat or fluff)
4. Undercooked tactical combat options
5. "Move and swing sword, cause damage" standard of combat
6. Inspiration, backgrounds not meaningful
7. A boring sameness throughout the whole game (between classes, levels, and monsters)

These aren’t system issues.

Imaro · Feb 6, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
The computer game argument always makes me laugh, though. 4e doesn’t translate any better to a computer game than previous editions (or 5e for that matter). It’s 100% tabletop DnD.

Have you played Neverwinter?

Ath-kethin · Feb 6, 2019

As far as I can determine, the entire index format exists entirely for the THAC0 joke.

Retreater · Feb 6, 2019

cmad1977 said:
These aren’t system issues.

True. I could make 5e a great fit for my style of game with extensive house rules (which I have done for a previous campaign), but it amounts to re-writing the system when maybe a better fit already exists out there.

doctorbadwolf · Feb 6, 2019

Imaro said:
Have you played Neverwinter?

Have you? It isn’t, at all, a 4e computer game. It completely goes down a different design path than 4e.

It isn’t even close. Which is good. It wouldn’t be as much fun if you had to scroll through 5 encounter powers to use one, and each has its own cool down, etc. using action point accumulation to time daily powers is a smart choice that wouldn’t work in tabletop 4e, but is great in neverwinter. The shift key powers are a great addition, but they aren’t a translation of 4e powers. There are no utility powers at all. Skills are basically meaningless, and you get no choices regarding them.

There is nothing analogous to skill challenges, your encounter and daily powers are “slotted”, and pretty much no actual mechanics from 4e make their way into neverwinter.

It’s a dnd game inspired by 4e. And it’s fun! But it ain’t a translation of 4e into a computer game.

D&D 5E 5e - Just Missing the Mark

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

Guest 6801328

Guest

Oofta

Legend

cmad1977

Hero

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

cmad1977

Hero

Imaro

Legend

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing

Retreater

Legend

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

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