What the heck is going on with the professional RPG industry in regards to Zak S?

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hawkeyefan

Legend
Are you okay with the industry leader and the biggest online seller of RPG products acting completely inconsistent? Now that they've set the standard on what happens when someone is found by them to be not worthy of inclusion in the professional community, I find it horrifying that they might do so with no consistency and argue through their actions "well we don't believe THOSE victims" or worse "not enough victims have come forward for us to act on someone who has been accused of abuse".

And yet, the idea that one allegation is enough is also quite horrifying. Here we go: I picked two names that I thought were people who had good standing in the RPG industry. Jester David almost came out saying "well it's only a matter of times before THAT person gets accused" against one of those two people. Which shows no-one's safe from being thought the worst of (except apparently Jeremy Crawford? What the heck?)

Acting inconsistent in what way? Changing their stance over time? I don't know if I'd consider that a reasonable metric for inconsistent behavior. Or do you mean why are they acting about Zak, but not about other possible abusers within the industry?

I think your take that everyone knows everything about Zak, and any theoretical abuser, is overstated. For example, I didn't know much about him. I was familiar with some of his work, and I quite liked it. I knew he had a blog, and I had read a couple of posts. But....I'm not on twitter or facebook or most other forms of social media....so my knowledge of Zak was pretty limited. I only learned about his online behavior and all the accusations and the feuds with other industry folks fairly recently.

I would say that this is more likely the default stance of most RPG players. None of the players in my group have any idea who he is, other than that they may know he wrote Vornheim.

For industry folks, plenty of people had issues with Zak. However, mostly it seemed like online arguments and so on. I remember finding out about some of this stuff, and reading forum posts and tweets and so on of people accusing Zak of certain behaviors, and of him accusing others, and everyone defending themselves with "evidence".....and I found it all rather nonsensical. I attributed it to the generally toxic way that people behave online, especially in matters of opinion about topics they are passionate about. I pretty much looked at it as a bunch of people yelling at each other online, and dismissed it all.

I would say that is part of the problem. Veracity of claims can easily be lost in online interactions, especially given the hyperbolic and exaggerated way we tend to deal with each other online. It becomes a signal lost in the noise kind of situation.

So for anyone in the industry who was not aware of what Zak had been accused of, or who was willing to grant him benefit of the doubt, I can kind of understand that. Up to a point. I think the new allegations, combined with everything from the past, should make it very difficult for anyone to side with Zak.

Ultimately, people can and should shift their views as more information is made available to them. If there's someone I work with, who I know well enough to consider them a good person, an accusation of wrongdoing is going to be something I would initially resist. I just think that's human nature. We're going to side with people we know over people we don't, generally speaking. But if more accusations come up, and more evidence of questionable behavior....I have to reevaluate my view.

I feel like you want everyone to have committed to a specific stance on day one, and then never alter that stance, which seems unrealistic and unnecessary. Could WotC have acted quicker? Sure. But I also know that a corporate response takes more time to craft than a tweet from a blogger. It's simply the reality of the situation.

So given the choice of crediting them with responding or blaming them for not responding quicker, I think the former is the more sensible option.
 

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Vexorg

Explorer
This is what George Orwell called becoming an "unperson". It's not enough for WotC to cut ties with him going forward. They have to go back in time and erase all record of his involvement, so they get to pretend he was never a part of their playtest team.

Even if Zak is brought into court and found guilty of abuse or harassment, why can't wizards simply say "yes we worked with him, but that was before we knew what was going on." Why does stripping him of credit for his contributions need to be part of his social punishment?
 

Imaro

Legend
This is what George Orwell called becoming an "unperson". It's not enough for WotC to cut ties with him going forward. They have to go back in time and erase all record of his involvement, so they get to pretend he was never a part of their playtest team.

Even if Zak is brought into court and found guilty of abuse or harassment, why can't wizards simply say "yes we worked with him, but that was before we knew what was going on." Why does stripping him of credit for his contributions need to be part of his social punishment?

Because associating with him could cost them money and honestly his name being on it probably doesn't bring in enough extra money to offset that risk. He performed a job, got paid for it and unless it was stipulated in his contract that he be listed in the book... what would be the advantage for WotC in keeping his name on it?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
They have to go back in time and erase all record of his involvement, so they get to pretend he was never a part of their playtest team.

That's one interpretation. Another is that we should not do honor to those who are not good people.

Even if Zak is brought into court and found guilty of abuse or harassment, why can't wizards simply say "yes we worked with him, but that was before we knew what was going on."

Because the credits page of a book is not the place for that kind of notification.

Why does stripping him of credit for his contributions need to be part of his social punishment?

Because social punishment is *supposed* to hit him in the pride. It is supposed to make others look at their own behavior, and consider what they value, and how they want to be remembered, and behave accordingly. The simple message here: if you want to be remembered for your work, don't be a class-A jerk.
 
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This is what George Orwell called becoming an "unperson".
They’re having him secretly murdered??

It's not enough for WotC to cut ties with him going forward. They have to go back in time and erase all record of his involvement, so they get to pretend he was never a part of their playtest team.

Even if Zak is brought into court and found guilty of abuse or harassment, why can't wizards simply say "yes we worked with him, but that was before we knew what was going on." Why does stripping him of credit for his contributions need to be part of his social punishment?
It’s a symbol that WotC doesn’t want to support or advertise such a person. It doesn’t change anything but is a gesture of support for the victims and an acknowledgement of their mistakes.

He’s been cast out of the gaming community. He is being shown the door and told he is no longer welcome. He is uninvited to the party.
Stripping him of a prime accolade (a credit in the Core Rulebook of the predominant game in the market) is important.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
If they are acting on more than the allegation, and are in fact reacting to known behaviour of Zak S or so strongly suspected behaviour that they feel confident in their current reaction: What the heck was the RPG industry doing up until now? If Zak S is so bad that he should have every mention of him removed from the RPG industry, why didn't they do something before now? I certainly wasn't surprised to see the most recent allegation. So why the heck are they pretending to be surprised? And if they didn't have any suspicions, why are they taking such drastic action against someone without any legal proceedings occurring?

There's a phrase you probably want to know: missing stair - "a person within a social group who many people know is untrustworthy or otherwise has to be "managed", but who they work around by trying to quietly warn others rather than deal with openly. The analogy is to a dangerous structural fault such as a missing stair in a home, which residents have become used to and accepting of, and which is not fixed or signposted, but which (some or most) newcomers are warned about. "

It takes significant work and pain to really deal with individuals who are problems, but have come to hold sway and influence. A great many people prefer to avoid or "manage" such problems, rather than confront them, and that means our communities have inertia. Frequently, change does not happen until events unfold that overcome that inertia, and then the ball rolls with dramatic speed.

So, in this case - Apparently many people inside the gaming community were aware of issues surrounding him. Some folks covered for him, or dismissed complaints or defended him because they thought Zak S. was too valuable to lose, or the effort of trying to confront the issue would have blowback, because his work and his public persona were popular. He used his own popularity and abrasive style as a weapon to keep things quiet. This kind of arrangement can last a long time, until someone gets fed up and is loud and persuasive enough for larger numbers to become aware and take notice and look sternly at the community leaders and ask, "What in blue blazes have you been doing about this person?!?" That moment has come for Zak S.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
What decision did Gen Con make? I haven't been able to find any response from them other than a non-committal tweet.
And that's all we will find, until they decide to tell us more. (I wouldn't hold my breath, though. They just said their Policy Team decisions are private.) GenCon is a different type of entity than, say, WotC or DriveThruRPG.

When I said that I support GenCon's decision, I meant it broadly: not because I know what their decision is, but because it is their decision to make, and I support them. I'm satisfied knowing they aren't ignoring this.
 
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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Yup. Pretty much.
Heck, the second Facebook post is pretty much superfluous. You just need one.
The criteria is:
a) Accusation from a victim
b) History of abuse rather than a one-time incident

What else would I need?
Written affidavits? Salacious photos? Incriminating video? The battered body of his wife, beaten to death?

There was a period of time where you only needed one accusation to get a Mob riled up enough to go out and Lynch some poor fool. Maybe they did not even bother to wear their hoods.

It is really interesting to see someone look back on those times as the good old days.
 

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