Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker Trailer

Zardnaar · Apr 20, 2019

Jester David said:
I like the idea of something else taking over. RotJ was neat, and them returning was cool when they were this mythical unknown. But the prequels really showed the flaws of the Jedi Order. Their failures led to the rise of the empire and the deaths of untold trillions.

Luke just going out and reforming the Jedi feels like repeating a mistake. Like the son of Mordred refounding the Knights of the Round Table.

I would actually be impressed by Abrams if he goes the route of a new order of Force Users that breaks the cycle of the Sith and Jedi. That changes the dynamic of the galaxy. That would be hella new and invigorating for the franchise, as even the EU was bound to the idea of Sith vs Jedi, which was made all the more pointless as the struggle had lasted 100,000 years.

When the EU ended it was heavily playing up the Sith and the Jedi balancing each other out. And they did add new force orders like the Imperial Knights. Skywalkers as a force tradition the names a bit silly.

The Sith were not around for 100 000 years maybe the species but the Sith as galcticc bad guys was more 5000 years. They over did the Jedi/Sith thing a bit to much but old republic era was interesting and the Sith/Jedi take on the Legacy of the Force comics was also well done IMHO with Cade Skywalker. Lukes Jedi also do actually save the galaxy as well so they succeed.

Lukes NJO was also a lot less dogmatic than the movies, they could go off and marry, found new force traditions etc. And some of them had a great visual.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Knight

I don't think they will go with eliminating the Jedi though, they might want to do a episode X-XII one day or set movies after IX. Its also risky if they do a Knights of the Old epublic era trilogy (it has been discussed) and potential audiences might not care about it if they know the Jedi ultimately go away. Its a very big Star Wars trope (the biggest?), I wouldn't go there if I was in charge of Disney lol. You would almost have to wonder if they are deliberately trying to chase their fans away at that point. Would bet money on that reaction being worse than the reaction to TLJ.

Jester David · Apr 20, 2019

Zardnaar said:
When the EU ended it was heavily playing up the Sith and the Jedi balancing each other out. And they did add new force orders like the Imperial Knights.

I'll take your word for it...

Zardnaar said:
Skywalkers as a force tradition the names a bit silly.

No sillier than "Jedi".
It just feels silly because it's unfamiliar.

Zardnaar said:
The Sith were not around for 100 000 years maybe the species but the Sith as galcticc bad guys was more 5000 years. They over did the Jedi/Sith thing a bit to much but old republic era was interesting and the Sith/Jedi take on the Legacy of the Force comics was also well done IMHO with Cade Skywalker. Lukes Jedi also do actually save the galaxy as well so they succeed.

I was exaggerating with the "100,000 years" line. But it was 25,000 years. With thousands of years of warfare throughout the first ten millennium of the Republic's lifetime. It's a ridiculously long period of constant battle.

Zardnaar said:
Lukes NJO was also a lot less dogmatic than the movies, they could go off and marry, found new force traditions etc. And some of them had a great visual.

I believe a lot of that also pre-dated the dogma of the prequels. So it was less that they were "more flexible than the Jedi" and more that the restrictions hadn't been invented yet. And once they had, they retconned it to Luke being more relaxed.

Zardnaar said:
I don't think they will go with eliminating the Jedi though, they might want to do a episode X-XII one day or set movies after IX.

I think having an "order of Skywalkers" would open things up for stories just as much as restarting the Jedi Order.

And it doesn't sound like they're doing a Episode X+ anytime soon. Really, the movies haven't been doing well, what with China not giving an eff. They might see the response to Rian Johnson's next trilogy and decide if they want to keep annual movies or just focus on television.

Zardnaar said:
Its also risky if they do a Knights of the Old epublic era trilogy (it has been discussed) and potential audiences might not care about it if they know the Jedi ultimately go away.

I don't see how that would matter.
People know the Knights of the Round Table all die, and they still watch Camelolt movies.

Zardnaar said:
Its a very big Star Wars trope (the biggest?), I wouldn't go there if I was in charge of Disney lol. You would almost have to wonder if they are deliberately trying to chase their fans away at that point.

I'd argue the trope of rebels fighting the empire is much bigger. You can have movies without the Jedi.
Really, of the franchise is to survive and grow it NEEDs to branch out away from the Jedi and the Force and be able to tell stories of the Black Sun and Mandalorians and junk traders.

Zardnaar said:
Would bet money on that reaction being worse than the reaction to TLJ.

Yeah... only like 10% of the audience hated TLJ. Most people liked it. It's a small vocal minority that hated it and is particularly loud online. And just as many people LOVED it and called it one of the best ones. With the vast, vast majority falling solidly in the middle.

The TLJ was a huge success for Lucas Films and Star Wars and in no way divided the audience remotely as much as comments online would lead you to believe.

Zardnaar · Apr 20, 2019

Republic lasted 25000 years, the Jedi were shorter than that

They just focused the stories on war set over thousands of years. Earth's history had a lot more wars in a timeframe 1/10th of the Republic.

They can easily tell a Star Wars story without the Jedi don't need to kill them off to do it. The old EU had plenty of non Jedi stories covering everything you mentioned. For Mandalore

. They even had female Mandalorians OMG!!!!

They also passed the torch to Jaina Solo with Ben Skywalker in training. She even trained with the Mandalorians to face her brother who fell to the darkside. He inherited the Skywalker whine so killing him off was good lol. Luke and could were still around but they were definitely transitioning in to the next generation.

pukunui · Apr 20, 2019

In an attempt to steer the conversation back to the teaser, am I the only one who feels like that guy getting taken down by Kylo Ren in the red-tinged forest is one of the other Knights of Ren? The outfit and weapon remind me of the guys seen standing in the rain with Kylo in Rey’s Force vision in TFA.

doctorbadwolf · Apr 20, 2019

pukunui said:
In an attempt to steer the conversation back to the teaser, am I the only one who feels like that guy getting taken down by Kylo Ren in the red-tinged forest is one of the other Knights of Ren? The outfit and weapon remind me of the guys seen standing in the rain with Kylo in Rey’s Force vision in TFA.

Seriously there is a whole other thread for that argument.

And yeah, rewatching it, I think you’re right.

MarkB · Apr 20, 2019

pukunui said:
In an attempt to steer the conversation back to the teaser, am I the only one who feels like that guy getting taken down by Kylo Ren in the red-tinged forest is one of the other Knights of Ren? The outfit and weapon remind me of the guys seen standing in the rain with Kylo in Rey’s Force vision in TFA.

Perhaps. Alternatively, if Palpatine really is back, it could be a Sith, or one of their minions.

Mercurius · Apr 20, 2019

Jester David said:
I like the idea of something else taking over. RotJ was neat, and them returning was cool when they were this mythical unknown. But the prequels really showed the flaws of the Jedi Order. Their failures led to the rise of the empire and the deaths of untold trillions.

Luke just going out and reforming the Jedi feels like repeating a mistake. Like the son of Mordred refounding the Knights of the Round Table.

I would actually be impressed by Abrams if he goes the route of a new order of Force Users that breaks the cycle of the Sith and Jedi. That changes the dynamic of the galaxy. That would be hella new and invigorating for the franchise, as even the EU was bound to the idea of Sith vs Jedi, which was made all the more pointless as the struggle had lasted 100,000 years.

Yes, I very much agree with this and like the idea of a more Taoistic, non-dualistic Force tradition. Of course as with the Hegelian dialectic, even if the Skywalkers were a synthesis and transcendence of the duality of Jedi and Sith, a new antithesis would form in contrast to it as a thesis, so we'd be back to "good" Skywalkers vs. "bad" ???

Zardnaar · Apr 20, 2019

Mercurius said:
Yes, I very much agree with this and like the idea of a more Taoistic, non-dualistic Force tradition. Of course as with the Hegelian dialectic, even if the Skywalkers were a synthesis and transcendence of the duality of Jedi and Sith, a new antithesis would form in contrast to it as a thesis, so we'd be back to "good" Skywalkers vs. "bad" ???

Something like this?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Aing-Tii

doctorbadwolf · Apr 20, 2019

Mercurius said:
Yes, I very much agree with this and like the idea of a more Taoistic, non-dualistic Force tradition. Of course as with the Hegelian dialectic, even if the Skywalkers were a synthesis and transcendence of the duality of Jedi and Sith, a new antithesis would form in contrast to it as a thesis, so we'd be back to "good" Skywalkers vs. "bad" ???

I’d much rather continue to have a franchise where there is genuine Good, genuine Evil, and folks in between.

In more DnD terms; the Dark Side is the corruption represented by aberrations, and the Force is Nature/The Will of Nature. Nature is unbalanced as long as beholders and aboleths exist. There is no balance between Nature and Aberrations.

In the same way, I prefer Star Wars to leave the “everything is grey” stuff to nearly every other franchise out there, and keep doing what makes it special.