If there's one game where stat differences are justified, what game would that be?

5ekyu · May 21, 2019

To me, this seems a bit of an issue thats a disconnect.

There is nothing in conflict with ssying as GM " in this world, ABC tend to be weaker than def" yet then letting PCs choose their ability scores without putting a penalty on one.

The PCs are a blip, anomalies by definition and are exceptions to the rules. So pushing them to follow the norms... well...ok so maybe one PC in a hundred is a hero then and the rest are peasants?

I mean really, of your four heroes one is an wicked prince, another a master spy, a third an enraged fiend of vengeance and the last is a former priest now trying to hunt down a demon they accidentally loosed.. but you as gm are gonna get ticked if the women PCs hafe too much muscle to be considered "within the norm"?

Ok then...

Nagol · May 21, 2019

5ekyu said:
To me, this seems a bit of an issue thats a disconnect.

There is nothing in conflict with ssying as GM " in this world, ABC tend to be weaker than def" yet then letting PCs choose their ability scores without putting a penalty on one.

The PCs are a blip, anomalies by definition and are exceptions to the rules. So pushing them to follow the norms... well...ok so maybe one PC in a hundred is a hero then and the rest are peasants?

I mean really, of your four heroes one is an wicked prince, another a master spy, a third an enraged fiend of vengeance and the last is a former priest now trying to hunt down a demon they accidentally loosed.. but you as gm are gonna get ticked if the women PCs hafe too much muscle to be considered "within the norm"?

Ok then...

Your premise depends strongly on how special the PCs are. Most campaigns of D&D I run, the PCs start off just like their neighbours. Heroism comes from choosing to act not nature and all that rot.

5ekyu · May 21, 2019

Nagol said:
Your premise depends strongly on how special the PCs are. Most campaigns of D&D I run, the PCs start off just like their neighbours. Heroism comes from choosing to act not nature and all that rot.

Yes, you are correct. In the games j run, the average run of the mill is more "commoner" than "1st level PC".

So I was basing it on that plus the typical fictions. If the guy next door is as good as your pc, that's a definite different animal of a campaign.

Umbran · May 21, 2019

Nagol said:
Your premise depends strongly on how special the PCs are. Most campaigns of D&D I run, the PCs start off just like their neighbours. Heroism comes from choosing to act not nature and all that rot.

The PCs aren't special. Okay, fine. Having an 18 strength, even for a man, seems pretty special...

If heroism comes from *actions*, that doesn't really inform what stats should be allowed in game. Maybe there's loads of people out there with good stats, but they don't take action that uses them in heroic manners...

acpitz 1 · May 21, 2019

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Nagol · May 21, 2019

Umbran said:
The PCs aren't special. Okay, fine. Having an 18 strength, even for a man, seems pretty special...

If heroism comes from *actions*, that doesn't really inform what stats should be allowed in game. Maybe there's loads of people out there with good stats, but they don't take action that uses them in heroic manners...

Well, yeah there's loads of people with good stats. About 1 person in 40 has an 18 in a stat. Most don't use them in heroic manner. That's why they're not protagonists.

Immortal Sun · May 21, 2019

Nagol said:
Well, yeah there's loads of people with good stats. About 1 person in 40 has an 18 in a stat. Most don't use them in heroic manner. That's why they're not protagonists.

The reason they're the protagonists is because they're run by the players.

It's not like, until today nobody has ever decided to do anything heroic or adventurous in the world. The characters are only exceptional because they're being puppeteered by these extra-dimensional creatures known as Players.

Nagol · May 21, 2019

Immortal Sun said:
The reason they're the protagonists is because they're run by the players.

It's not like, until today nobody has ever decided to do anything heroic or adventurous in the world. The characters are only exceptional because they're being puppeteered by these extra-dimensional creatures known as Players.

I've had players who ended up not being protagonists because they refused to do anything adventurous or tried and were wiped out before accomplishing anything. Neither leads to a strong campaign.

There are other adventurers, but generally not very many who are able/willing to respond where the PCs start. Most people have better things to do with their time. Adventuring (especially early adventuring) tends to be desperate work done by desperate people when envisioned in that sort of world.

Sacrosanct · May 21, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Or male fans who want to play a dark seducer!

Hey. How YOU doin'?

.... that's how it works, right?

They said "dark seducer" not "dork seducer."

I suppose this whole topic begs the question, "if you're going give stat limits based on sex, does that mean halflings max out at 5 strength (since they are the size of a toddler human).

Way back in the mid 80s, Kim Mohan was using realism to defend the strength limit for women, and got lambasted for it. 35 years ago. I would like to think we've progressed since the 80s to where this wouldn't even be a discussion topic, but some times I look around in the country and it seems like a lot of people want to go back to the 50s.

acpitz 1 · May 21, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
I suppose this whole topic begs the question, "if you're going give stat limits based on sex, does that mean halflings max out at 5 strength (since they are the size of a toddler human).

Different beings can have completely different physique. Take a look at chimps for example. They are way more powerful compared to their size than humans are.

You cannot compare like that.