PCs build an Empire - how did it happen?

Ok - who here has had PCs build an empire within the course of a campaign. I'm talking about starting off with nothing and no power and eventually founding a nation (even a small one, like just one town) and building a territory where THEY are the rulers of the land.

I have really only done it once, though with so many different characters who became involved in the process besides the two that "founded it" (and guess who the main founder was? His name starts with an "A").

I found it very rewarding and engaging and it even led to additional adventures that involved other players who also had fun with it even though it wasn't "their" nation. They did make a home there.

So I'm curious who else has had such an experience - and what was it like - how long did it take to build it. I've talked about it elsewhere here - but basically, it was a very long, slow process (in 1E) and I was still feeling like it was barely started, even though I had a sizeable, if somewhat empty, nation in the mountains - with a huge main castle, a capitol city with close to 10,000 people (that had started with nothing), a few minor cities, and a good dozen other strongholds from various other characters and followers - some at very strategic locations. Oh, and by that point, Altalazar was level 17 (wizard), which is rather impressive in 1E - with an ioun stone, he could cast 9th level spells and he had researched a rather large number of very specific spells - most of which were related either to aiding in ruling the nation (of Teren) or in building and maintaining his mage's guild - which was built out of extradimensional rooms interconnected with planar portals. The guild itself was a whole different project that was interrelated to the nation.

Management Campaign

Nothing as grand as what you are talking about, but I played in a campaign once where we were starting to take the reins of a small town, and we had plans to build it up into our sort of little city state. Unfortunately, it didn't work out and the campaign ended. I really looked forward to playing that game though, with all the planning and idea. I was to be the second in command, *sniff*. Oh well...

In the first RPG I ever seriously played (D6 Star Wars), my character and a few others toppled the Empire, and created a new Republic in our own image. None of that wishy-washy you can secede whenever you want crap that has so plagued the expanded universe of Star Wars. It was fun, but it was kinda before we figured out that it was a good idea to stop playing the same character after they got to a certain power level.

In a more recent game, I had characters who were instrumental to the founding of a nation (really, the ascencion of a barony) and the conquering of some surrounding territory.

In my current game, the characters are trying to rebel and secede from the nation their forefathers helped create. The irony!

If you're going to do it right, you have to remember that it's a very complicated process, and that most nations won't just sit idly by while you claim what is at least nominally their territory as your own. You should have to fight for it, or be REALLY good at diplomacy (the actual skill, not just rolling) in order to make this sort of thing happen. I'm not sure what more you want, but if you ask more specific questions, I might be able to help more.

Hard to build an empire from nothing - IME empire-building PCs tend to be the ones who start off with a small 'packet', maybe a jarldom or barony inherited from their father, something like Alexander the Great inheriting Macedon. Then they use their small starting kingdom to create a big kingdom or empire, through a combination of political alliances and military conquest. I love that kind of stuff.

In my case, it was more carving out something into the wilderness - a mountainous area that was infested with certain monsters that kept civilization away. When I got rid of them, I built the castle and founded a town at a river junction that would later become a key stop on a new trade route through the mountains.

The beauty of it was that I wasn't always playing the main "world building" characters or events related to them. I'd play their followers. I'd play other characters who then lived in the area - so then I enjoyed being a part of the new nation without necessarily always being in some big struggle about its existence. I'd start out 1st level characters who were members of the Mage's guild or who were otherwise part of the town - with their own personalities and agendas, but also being part of the whole. For the final years that I played 1E, I'd have to say every character I played was somehow related to that nation.

(The other games I played in at that point were all 2E).

In the current Ravenloft campaign we're playing, we had control of a small village for a certain amount of time. Things were going extremely well; my Diplomacy-monster bard was even getting surrounding humanoid to live in peace. Then the Mists literally picked us up and threw us into Vecna Reborn. We got all killed one after another, so when we went back the party was completely changed; the village wsa razed, its every inhabitant slaughtered, and we came just in time to prevent them being made undead. Oh well, that's how Ravenloft works. Not the best place to build prosperous and happy democracies.

Zappo said:

In the current Ravenloft campaign we're playing, we had control of a small village for a certain amount of time. Things were going extremely well; my Diplomacy-monster bard was even getting surrounding humanoid to live in peace. Then the Mists literally picked us up and threw us into Vecna Reborn. We got all killed one after another, so when we went back the party was completely changed; the village wsa razed, its every inhabitant slaughtered, and we came just in time to prevent them being made undead. Oh well, that's how Ravenloft works. Not the best place to build prosperous and happy democracies.

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LOL - yeah, that sounds about right for Ravenloft. I ran a Ravenloft game for a while - I loved it - it had all sorts of interesting twists. But I would never attempt to build anything in Ravenloft. Though I can see a certain dark poetry to your story - only in Ravenloft, I'd expect the final stanza to be more along the lines of you making it back to town to see they already were made undead and then the party slowly, sullenly sinks bank into the wilderness, yet another disheartening blow from the mists.

Iam currently running a long time Realms games that consist of my 4 players and they are playing 2 characters each
One set is there near epic level characters that since becoming well known has settled in unoccupied territory near the western heartlands, which went from a trading post waylay, to becomeing a near country of the area rapidly occuping most of the unclaimed area.

They started off using there own pooled funds to build a trade station and Inn/tavern.
Then it just grew since, becomeing a Hamlet then now it is a small city and the King is the Orc PC, the rules of the state is that any race can live there as long as they live in peace and contribute to there respective community

So far it has worked well, but they are currently at war with Hordes from the Savage north.

Not yet - simply dominating important figures doesn't work either. When the king's advisors and desk clerk can easily make a Sense Motive (DC 15) check... you'll need to dominate them too, keep them out of public, and then it's high-maintenance. Maybe you're better off just using charm monster and occasionally using heightened suggestion on them.

If you're DMing, start with power structures. Is there a strong king? That makes things harder at the beginning and easier at the end, assuming the PCs are evil and have no problems with exterminating the king's family. (Really, how many good-aligned empire builders are there?)

Is there a weak king? Then it's easy to get some nobles on your side, but when you're done you need to keep them happy, too. Afterwards they'll just rebel unless you treat them really good.

Is there some kind of theocracy, magocracy, oligarchy or democracy? Then don't bother

Never ally with the strong against the weak; humiliate the strong and curry favor with the weak. And finally, when you've taken over another country, move in or at least put a trusted advisor in charge. (That way you don't have to use up seven or more teleport spells per day.)

(Psi)SeveredHead said:

Not yet - simply dominating important figures doesn't work either. When the king's advisors and desk clerk can easily make a Sense Motive (DC 15) check... you'll need to dominate them too, keep them out of public, and then it's high-maintenance. Maybe you're better off just using charm monster and occasionally using heightened suggestion on them.

If you're DMing, start with power structures. Is there a strong king? That makes things harder at the beginning and easier at the end, assuming the PCs are evil and have no problems with exterminating the king's family. (Really, how many good-aligned empire builders are there?)

Is there a weak king? Then it's easy to get some nobles on your side, but when you're done you need to keep them happy, too. Afterwards they'll just rebel unless you treat them really good.

Is there some kind of theocracy, magocracy, oligarchy or democracy? Then don't bother

Never ally with the strong against the weak; humiliate the strong and curry favor with the weak. And finally, when you've taken over another country, move in or at least put a trusted advisor in charge. (That way you don't have to use up seven or more teleport spells per day.)

Click to expand...

Well, there is a difference between TAKING OVER an existing kingdom and building your own, from scratch, out of the trackless wilderness. I rather enjoy the latter over the former. Maybe that is why I also enjoy games like Civilization so much.

If I were playing a game, I'd look for that wilderness to carve out a nation from. If the world was already overstuffed and crowded, with no monster-infested wilderness lands to clear, well, I guess I'd not like that as much.