Little Changes with Big Flavor

Desdichado · Apr 4, 2002

MaxKaladin:
Use a different religion instead of the D&D standard pallet of many gods in a vague polytheistic arrangement. Substitute spirits, ancestor worship, henotheism or monotheism.

Have differences be a matter of differences of opinion about religion rather than different gods. Make the 'evil cleric' a heretic who believes opposite of what the established church authority believes instead of a worshipper of an evil god.

Use sects and orders to introduce diversity. That way the cleric of the god of magic becomes a member of the Order of Saint So-and-So, who's members are reknown for their knowledge and skill when dealing with magic.

Note that this can create a completely different atmosphere for the party cleric. If everyone is assumed to be members of the same religion, suddenly, the cleric is no longer a person without a congregation. It allows many more roleplaying opportunities for clerics.

Click to expand...

I've done a variation on this in my campaign world that I've been developing. Although the campaign setting is polytheistic, I don't have regular clerics, so different cultures may have vastly different views on "the gods:" they are too hands-off to step in an clarify. In addition, like in real world polytheistic societies, there are not rival churches dedicated to one god: rather, individuals pray to whichever god in the pantheon is appropriate for their situation at hand. Farmers pray to the sky/storm god when they want rain or sunshine, but they don't do so when one of their children dies of the plague, for instance. There, they would pray to a god of death. On the weekend, city folks may well pray to the goddess of luck, sex or whatnot, although they wouldn't pay too much attention to her otherwise. Priests, likewise, although they may have certain "special interests" in certain gods, nominally service the entire population and can explain doctrine, or intercede in behalf of any god.

Rowenstin · Apr 4, 2002

Make all magic unexistent... until the campaign starts and sorceres, strange creatures and places of power spring everywhere.

Kill the sacred crow - make wizards able to cast healing magic, and make wizards and priests the same class.

Do not tell the players what their items do, and/or give the party only subtle items (no flamig swords or necklaces of fireballs). Identify gives a short rime or riddle.

Describe what the components needed for making a magic item are, and make them change price and/or availability.

Kill another sacred crow - the common tongue. Suddenly bards do not suck.

Wolfen Priest · Apr 4, 2002

You know, Josh, although I've found everything on this thread to be very interesting, I think what you just said has me roused more than anything else, if in part because it's the only thing I have never thought of even once.

That is SUCH a good idea! And realistic, because that is how pantheistic religions have historically worked. I always found it kind of unrealistic that clerics would be devoted to only one god in an entire pantheon of gods.

I guess this would allow for good and evil priests to work within the same heirarchy.... probably not unlike real life!

(kidding)

pensiv · Apr 4, 2002

often ignored is the origins of myths:

The gods that people worship may not be gods, but just historical heroes long dead. The myths and folklore regarding the gods' deeds are the deeds of these heroes, or those deeds embellished to make them more heroic or godlike.

Actual natural events caused the cataclym that reshaped the world, but the common person believes it was the retribution of the gods.

The gods can be real, but wholly different from what most people believe them to be. Most clerics are Sorcerors whose faith inspires their spells. There may be a few "true clerics" that are regarded as madmen or heretics, or are completely unheard of.

Psion · Apr 4, 2002

Rowenstin said:
Kill another sacred crow - the common tongue. Suddenly bards do not suck.

I'm surprised anyone uses it. I sort of have a common tongue, but it really is an admixture between two culture's languages and is called a Trade Tongue. But elsewhere, it is totally meaningless. (Expecially on other planes, etc.)

Psion · Apr 4, 2002

omokage said:
oThe gods that people worship may not be gods, but just historical heroes long dead.

That's sort of where I am, except for they are really actually gods. They just haven't been around since the creation. Basically, gods in my game (at least most human deities) are like the Dread Pirate Roberts: there might have been a first one, but it has been a long time. Ever since the dawn of time, the gods have just been handing down their mantles.

Ace · Apr 4, 2002

I like the Ice Pyramids idea but I suppose I am biased as I tried the same thing IMC, only the Pyramids were ruins from a pole shift. Once The Northern Desert Now The The Ice Wastes.
I can only say Frozen Mummies rule.

Now as to a few of small changes that bring big flavor

First: Climate Tweaking.
Most games assume basic "European Temperate" weather. One thing you can do is make it warmer. Not a tropic climate but a climate like Southern California. It would have interesting changes on armour and weapons and food to boot.

Second: Get rid of Turning.
Clerics become quite different without Turn Undead and similar powers. You can gives them the ability as a spell if you like. Without Turning undead become much tougher and scarier.
A realted option is to allow minor Undead to be made as a magic item. Say third level spell cost 5xp per HD to animate. This doesn't count against the limit.
My world Building buddy does this with a glowing pearl in the mouth as a focus (ala the new D20 COC spell coincidently) I use a small token but the net effect is the same and it allows some big undead armies.
Combined with the no turn option can you say "Survival Horror"

Third:
Tweak spells. Lightning Bolt can become "Fire Line" with no real game balance issues. Fire Ball can become Ice Ball and so on.
Forbiddance can be changed from "alignement restricted" to faith restricted and so on.
The FX on a spell can always be tweaked. Fly surrounds the user witha glowing aura, Leviatate produces a tiny puff of wind.

Kaptain_Kantrip · Apr 4, 2002

This thread is great! These ideas should have been covered in the DMG.

Desdichado · Apr 4, 2002

Wolfen Priest:
You know, Josh, although I've found everything on this thread to be very interesting, I think what you just said has me roused more than anything else, if in part because it's the only thing I have never thought of even once.

That is SUCH a good idea! And realistic, because that is how pantheistic religions have historically worked. I always found it kind of unrealistic that clerics would be devoted to only one god in an entire pantheon of gods.

Click to expand...

I aim to please!

Psion:
That's sort of where I am, except for they are really actually gods. They just haven't been around since the creation. Basically, gods in my game (at least most human deities) are like the Dread Pirate Roberts: there might have been a first one, but it has been a long time. Ever since the dawn of time, the gods have just been handing down their mantles.

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, where do the old gods go, then?

Ace:
Most games assume basic "European Temperate" weather. One thing you can do is make it warmer. Not a tropic climate but a climate like Southern California. It would have interesting changes on armour and weapons and food to boot.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. There was surprisingly little variation across the whole Eurasian Continent, from the Middle-east, to Northern Europe to China throughout most of the early Medieval period. In fact, a lot of the really heavy armor was first developed in either the Middle-east or Central Asia. The European knight was heavily influenced by Late Sassanian heavy cavalry. Southern California doesn't have too different a climate than eastern Mediterranean, or Fertile Crescent (although it's drier there now than in the past.)

Jackcarter · Apr 4, 2002

Don't mean to butt into yall deep thoughts, but...

In fact, a lot of the really heavy armor was first developed in either the Middle-east or Central Asia. The European knight was heavily influenced by Late Sassanian heavy cavalry.

Can you explain this? My first thought is, "huh?!?" so some elaboration would be nice.

I'm surprised anyone uses it. I sort of have a common tongue, but it really is an admixture between two culture's languages and is called a Trade Tongue. But elsewhere, it is totally meaningless. (Expecially on other planes, etc.)

If I recall correctly, that's not Common is FR, pidgin Chondathan that only Chondathan-influenced areas speak. I have no idea whether or not this was present in the older FR editions, but I think it's not bad for a setting everyone loves to bag.

Although the campaign setting is polytheistic, I don't have regular clerics, so different cultures may have vastly different views on "the gods:" they are too hands-off to step in an clarify. In addition, like in real world polytheistic societies, there are not rival churches dedicated to one god: rather, individuals pray to whichever god in the pantheon is appropriate for their situation at hand. Farmers pray to the sky/storm god when they want rain or sunshine, but they don't do so when one of their children dies of the plague, for instance

Sure, but IRL, gods didn't grant powers or cause misfortunes either. Well, maybe they did, but we just dismiss them as natural disasters... Back to the point, it's a bit presumptuous to imply that because religion worked in certain way in RL, then it's better that it function so in the game. Not exactly what you mean, but can be easily juxaposed from. Maybe, if gods did have real power, world's religions would look more than Judaism and less politheistic? I think the Old Testament God is more relevant to how fantasy god would act in a polytheistic setting. Just as God railed against Baal and the other phoenician gods and jealously guarded his stewardship over his people, shouldn't the fantasy gods act in the same way?

After all, one can plausibly argue, from a gamer point of view, that God was powerless to prevent the enslavement to the Egyptians backed by their gods, or prevent the Babylonian captivity as well. Only by biding his time and through divine machinations, was God able to outflank the Egyptian and Babylonian gods and rescue his worshippers. Sacriligeous, yes, but makes certain gamer sense.

Little Changes with Big Flavor

Desdichado

Hero

Rowenstin

First Post

Wolfen Priest

First Post

pensiv

Explorer

Psion

Adventurer

Psion

Adventurer

Ace

Adventurer

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post

Desdichado

Hero

Jackcarter

First Post

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