Helm of opposite alignment and undead

bobthebuilder · Jan 29, 2004

What happens if you put a helm of opposite alignment on a vampire?

There is no detail in the item description on the spells that are actually involved... the item description says that it is a moral and mental affect which leads me to believe it wouldn't affect undead (as they are immune to mind altering affects?)....

would appreciate your thoughts?

kreynolds · Jan 29, 2004

I say it effects undead...

"Strong transmutation; CL 12th; Create Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level; Price 4,000 gp;Weight 3 lb."

bobthebuilder · Jan 29, 2004

kreynolds said:
I say it effects undead...

"Strong transmutation; CL 12th; Create Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level; Price 4,000 gp;Weight 3 lb."

I assume you're basing it on the fact that it is a transmutation ?

kreynolds · Jan 29, 2004

Yup. It doesn't specify any spells as prerequisites, but if the aura was enchantment, I'd say it didn't affect undead. As it is, however, I think the intent is otherwise.

bobthebuilder · Jan 29, 2004

kreynolds said:
Yup. It doesn't specify any spells as prerequisites, but if the aura was enchantment, I'd say it didn't affect undead. As it is, however, I think the intent is otherwise.

Good argument... can't understand how the effect works though...

Sejs · Jan 29, 2004

I assume you're basing it on the fact that it is a transmutation?

Right, and there's no Mind Effecting transmutations, at least in the PHB (which is the only 3.5 book I have on hand to check atm).

Just to pitch in my two bits - it sounds like it would fly.

bobthebuilder · Jan 29, 2004

Sejs said:
Right, and there's no Mind Effecting transmutations, at least in the PHB (which is the only 3.5 book I have on hand to check atm).

Just to pitch in my two bits - it sounds like it would fly.

As in - u think it would work on the blood-sucker too?

Sejs · Jan 29, 2004

Yep, I do. The only grey area that I could see would be if you plonked the helm on say a zombie. Sure their alignment changes, but mindless is still mindless.

As for how it works mechanically, for the most part really strong transmutations don't so much influence how something reacts (like mind effects do), so much as change what something just -is-. Take for example Polymorph Any Object, that can turn a human into a rabbit - complete with the rabbit's intelligence, permanantly. But at the same time isn't a mind effecting spell.

bobthebuilder · Jan 29, 2004

Sejs said:
Yep, I do. The only grey area that I could see would be if you plonked the helm on say a zombie. Sure their alignment changes, but mindless is still mindless.

As for how it works mechanically, for the most part really strong transmutations don't so much influence how something reacts (like mind effects do), so much as change what something just -is-. Take for example Polymorph Any Object, that can turn a human into a rabbit - complete with the rabbit's intelligence, permanantly. But at the same time isn't a mind effecting spell.

Ok, two reasoned arguments is enough for me

Thanks

Helm of opposite alignment and undead

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