Alignmet help

Fhalyassa · Nov 17, 2012

Would a succubus who falls in love and marries her lover and has an alu-fiend daughter with her husband be in line with say Chaotic Good during this time?

Dandu · Nov 17, 2012

You know, evil people fall in love too.

Fhalyassa · Nov 17, 2012

I was discussingmy character history to some people and they though she should more like Chaotic Good instead of evil while she was in love and such. They said that since Love is one of the most selfless act you can have that she would be good in alignment. One person said the following to show that she was doing something good.
Rule of thumb.

1. If it makes people care about other people besides themselves in a way that is gentle, protective and forgiving = That's probably goodness.

2. If deliberately causes death, pain, selfishness, or greed = That's Evil.

Tequila Sunrise · Nov 17, 2012

It would depend on what kind of a wife/mother she is. Are we talking Sound of Music stuff, or manipulative wife / abusive mother kind of stuff?

'Love' is about the vaguest and most flexible word in the English language*, so saying that 'love is good' is kind of a leap.

*Rivaled in versatility only by a certain other four letter word.

Wycen · Nov 17, 2012

Well, are you asking for philosophical curiosity or trying to figure something out for a game you're playing?

Is a being who is the essence of chaos and evil capable of love or is it lust or something else?

Giving birth to a child, was it done for her lover because they wanted it or just because? I could argue that it is evil because she's going to know that down the road she'll have a loyal, or at least indebted servant.

Have you read the Planescape comic from the Hellbound boxed set? That has a love story between 2 evil demons. Well, one demon who may have loved a greater demon and a greater demon who was possibly just enjoying a fling and just happens to see the lesser demon who "loved" her before she dies.

The alignment system is wonky so don't put too much faith into it. If by "Good" you mean the succubus is suddenly being compassionate to strangers and doing charity work and such, I'd say I wouldn't buy it. She may in fact be "Good" to those she already has a relationship with, but who gives a crap about the people outsider her circle.

If you haven't already read it, find a copy of Colin McComb's Faces of Evil: The Fiends.

Here is something from an old game of mine which is sort of similar.

Alu-fiend of chaotic neutral alignment meets up with mortal of neutral alignment. They hook up at first by contract. She'll be a body guard.
But through trials and tribulations she finds herself trusting him. We'll ignore the fact the guy hooks up with other chicks, but he had a supernaturally high Charisma, and that's a whole other story.

Trust leads to friendship, friendship to something more. Oh, we are talking about decades of time passing.

At some point, I vaguely recall asking a question to either Colin or some other 2E DnD bigwig. It was about an alu-fiend's choices, but I don't remember my exact question anymore. But I do remember the jist of the answer.

Eventually the alu-fiend has to make a choice. Since she's only half a fiend, she can choose, does she embrace the mortal side of her soul or the fiend side?

For a similar story, check out Viconia the drow NPC from the Baldur's Gate computer game.

Dozen · Nov 17, 2012

Fhalyassa said:
I was discussingmy character history to some people and they though she should more like Chaotic Good instead of evil while she was in love and such. They said that since Love is one of the most selfless act you can have that she would be good in alignment. One person said the following to show that she was doing something good.
Rule of thumb.

1. If it makes people care about other people besides themselves in a way that is gentle, protective and forgiving = That's probably goodness.

2. If deliberately causes death, pain, selfishness, or greed = That's Evil.

Overly simplified and inaccurate. Don't listen to every shmuck who comes along. Love can redeem, but a few good qualities alone doesn't make someone 'Good' per se, and neither is death, selfishness, greed, or necessary pain is instantly Evil. Take a man who kills an Evil monster in it's own lair and takes it's hoard for himself. He wasn't defending anyone from the monster at the time, he just wanted the riches. Thus he covered death, probably pain, as well as greed and selfishness in one go, but what he did was Neutral, since it's justified. He might even be Good as per the Aligment chart, though admittedly not the kind of Good I'd let hold my back. He could say the monster would have gone out and kill some innocents, yet by this reasoning he could kill anyone who sneers at him. In the end the deed wasn't bad, but the heavens aren't exacty going to praise him for it.
Conversely, You may call somebody a hero who saved a child from being run over on the street. He's still Evil if he, say, forces himself on women whenever he feels like it.
And then there is the housewife who goes and steals from the needy to feed his family and accepts the punishment when she's caught without resistance. She 'Cares about other people besides themselves in a way that is gentle, protective and forgiving' like you said, but screams of not being a good person. She still put herself and her goals(here, to protect her family) above everything and everyone. She is Neutral, at best.

Now, having cleared misconceptions out of the way... if the Succubus in question wants to impress her lover and acts Good for his sake, she is on the path of becoming morally Neutral, and then may become Good, should she take a liking in it and start doing it for the sake of the deed. Maybe she just picks up Good qualities along the way and gradually becomes a better person. Both can happen, though neither is likely. It's entirely possible she stays Evil for the rest of her life, in love or not.

CroBob · Nov 17, 2012

Fhalyassa said:
Would a succubus who falls in love and marries her lover and has an alu-fiend daughter with her husband be in line with say Chaotic Good during this time?

... She's a succubus. Perhaps being in love could lead her to act more selflessly and become good, but being in love is not, in itself, good. Is she suddenly lawful for being loyal to the person she loves? No, she still has the same personality, she's just in love. She may be selfless for her family, but then go and torture children for fun later that day.

emoplato · Nov 17, 2012

Fhalyassa said:
I was discussingmy character history to some people and they though she should more like Chaotic Good instead of evil while she was in love and such. They said that since Love is one of the most selfless act you can have that she would be good in alignment. One person said the following to show that she was doing something good.
Rule of thumb.

1. If it makes people care about other people besides themselves in a way that is gentle, protective and forgiving = That's probably goodness.

2. If deliberately causes death, pain, selfishness, or greed = That's Evil.

As everyone else is saying being in love and even maintaining that relationship doesn't warrant a full alignment change. Chaotic Good is an alignment and represents an ideal set for liberators and benevolent individualists. Love is a feeling which makes itself proven by acts to attract and/or benefit another regardless of who that is. So, saying selfless love is equal to Chaotic Good is a non-sequitir.
Now, lets say for argument sake that in fact she does truly love this man, has his child, and stays his wife, I mean it is your character and story after all. First of all who is this guy that a Succubus wouldn't manipulate and abuse much less love? Secondly, the human mind can make exceptions to what they normally think the way things are especially when a high degree of emotion/feelings are involved. So, it would make sense that an intelligent being such as at best an erratic and capricious Succubus would do so as well. I would say she would behave in a way in which she wouldn't readily abuse her husband or child but would continue to do so against others if just for the purpose of being defensive to what she believes is hers against potential enemies.

Fhalyassa · Nov 17, 2012

Wycen said:
Well, are you asking for philosophical curiosity or trying to figure something out for a game you're playing?

Is a being who is the essence of chaos and evil capable of love or is it lust or something else?

Giving birth to a child, was it done for her lover because they wanted it or just because? I could argue that it is evil because she's going to know that down the road she'll have a loyal, or at least indebted servant.

Have you read the Planescape comic from the Hellbound boxed set? That has a love story between 2 evil demons. Well, one demon who may have loved a greater demon and a greater demon who was possibly just enjoying a fling and just happens to see the lesser demon who "loved" her before she dies.

The alignment system is wonky so don't put too much faith into it. If by "Good" you mean the succubus is suddenly being compassionate to strangers and doing charity work and such, I'd say I wouldn't buy it. She may in fact be "Good" to those she already has a relationship with, but who gives a crap about the people outsider her circle.

If you haven't already read it, find a copy of Colin McComb's Faces of Evil: The Fiends.

Here is something from an old game of mine which is sort of similar.

Alu-fiend of chaotic neutral alignment meets up with mortal of neutral alignment. They hook up at first by contract. She'll be a body guard.
But through trials and tribulations she finds herself trusting him. We'll ignore the fact the guy hooks up with other chicks, but he had a supernaturally high Charisma, and that's a whole other story.

Trust leads to friendship, friendship to something more. Oh, we are talking about decades of time passing.

At some point, I vaguely recall asking a question to either Colin or some other 2E DnD bigwig. It was about an alu-fiend's choices, but I don't remember my exact question anymore. But I do remember the jist of the answer.

Eventually the alu-fiend has to make a choice. Since she's only half a fiend, she can choose, does she embrace the mortal side of her soul or the fiend side?

For a similar story, check out Viconia the drow NPC from the Baldur's Gate computer game.

I asking this so i can sett up a bio on character I am working right now. I had her in so in love that she was will to let a dark priest married her and her lover in a dark ceremony. Below is what I have written so far on the character that should help out. Also she really does love Ranylor.

Seducing the warror who is also a sculptor Ranylor was her first and last job as a succubus.
• She managed to seduce Ranylor and turn him Chaotic Evil

• After revealing her true from to Ranylor he thought she was a goddess. Ranylor was in love with her and thought her demon form was a goddess in terms of beauitful. Her being a succubus did not stop Ranylor being in love with her.
• She was captured and tried from being a demon. She was sentenced to be burned at the stake. Ranylor rescues her from nearly being burned alive at the stake.
• She and Ranylor run away from Ranylor's home town.
• Three months after Ranylor had left his hown town he proposed to her.
• A months after proposing to her Ranylor had found an evil preist who would marry him and her.
• Three months after getting married she was pregnant.
• She gave birth to a beautiful Alu-Fiend daughter.
• Five mother after giving birth her daughter and Ranylor where capture at their home by a Cleric. The cleric traped her daughter and Ranylor in their house and set the house on fire. Her daughter and Ranylor where burn alive in the fire that burned their house.
• She was on her way home whe she saw what was left of her burnt house. After searching the burn wreck of her house she found the body of her dead daughter and her husband Ranylor.

N'raac · Nov 17, 2012

Fhalyassa said:
Seducing the warror who is also a sculptor Ranylor was her first and last job as a succubus.
• She managed to seduce Ranylor and turn him Chaotic Evil

• After revealing her true from to Ranylor he thought she was a goddess. Ranylor was in love with her and thought her demon form was a goddess in terms of beauitful. Her being a succubus did not stop Ranylor being in love with her.
• She was captured and tried from being a demon. She was sentenced to be burned at the stake. Ranylor rescues her from nearly being burned alive at the stake.

Seriously? Succubi are immune to fire. Seems like those sentencing her didn't know too much about demons, huh?