How much does the RPG system actually matter....for player enjoyment?

TrippyHippy said:

People's experiences may differ, but I have played Dungeon World for example, and although the rule set was a neat and tidy system, I couldn't see what the fuss was about at all. We were just playing D&D with different dice and that was the entire difference in terms of our output.

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Okay, but I was comparing Dungeon World, Fate, Dread, and Fiasco.

Fiasco has no GM, you don't roll to try to do stuff, and scenes only ever involve two PCs. In Dread you die if you ever "fail a roll." Or how about Everyone is John. In that game, everyone is a different personality of John who vies for control of his psyche and tries to get him to do certain things. None of that seems like D&D with different dice. I don't even see how you would approach these things the same way you approach D&D.

ThirdWizard said:

Okay, but I was comparing Dungeon World, Fate, Dread, and Fiasco.

Fiasco has no GM, you don't roll to try to do stuff, and scenes only ever involve two PCs. In Dread you die if you ever "fail a roll." Or how about Everyone is John. In that game, everyone is a different personality of John who vies for control of his psyche and tries to get him to do certain things. None of that seems like D&D with different dice. I don't even see how you would approach these things the same way you approach D&D.

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Well, let's forget Dungeon World, Fate and Dread for the moment.

I actually like Fiasco quite a lot - but I regard it as an entirely different form of rpg to something like D&D. All that said though, it's a bit like Baron Munchausen in that it can work brilliantly with some groups who are prepared to get into it, but can leave other groups floundering. Again, it's really down to the personnel and their respective attitudes that creates the quality of gameplay.

I agree that Fiasco is a very different RPG than your traditional kind. I've never gotten to play Baron Munchausen, but I've heard of it, and I think its sounds great. I'm using vastly different RPGs to try and point out that certain systems are good at certain things. If you want to play a game that's about finding out what happens in the aftermath of a murder-suicide in 1850s London where you play the heirs trying to determine who gets what inheritance, then don't you think this game will be different based on whether you play it out using D&D or Fiasco? Both might be fun, I don't know. But, different at least, enough that you might have a preference one way or the other?

If system didn't matter, people wouldn't be making more systems!

If you're not convinced, play the Maid RPG and tell me your opinion afterwords...

MichaelSomething said:

If system didn't matter, people wouldn't be making more systems!

If you're not convinced, play the Maid RPG and tell me your opinion afterwords...

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The question was how much does the rpg system matter...for player enjoyment. Your points don't actually address that question.

ThirdWizard said:

I agree that Fiasco is a very different RPG than your traditional kind. I've never gotten to play Baron Munchausen, but I've heard of it, and I think its sounds great. I'm using vastly different RPGs to try and point out that certain systems are good at certain things. If you want to play a game that's about finding out what happens in the aftermath of a murder-suicide in 1850s London where you play the heirs trying to determine who gets what inheritance, then don't you think this game will be different based on whether you play it out using D&D or Fiasco? Both might be fun, I don't know. But, different at least, enough that you might have a preference one way or the other?

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The point about games like Fiasco and Baron Munchausen is that they really don't employ elaborate game mechanics to achieve what they want. They set a tone and provide an organised model of play, but the rest really is up to the players.

MichaelSomething said:

If system didn't matter, people wouldn't be making more systems!

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Not that I completely disagree with the conclusion, but this argument doesn't fly. The business world is not about people trying to make things that are useful or needed or which "matter". It's about making money. More rpgs are released, whether they add anything to the hobby or not, to make a profit, and as in many businesses, there are lots of examples and some broad themes whereby new rpg material is worthless.

MichaelSomething said:

If system didn't matter, people wouldn't be making more systems!

If you're not convinced, play the Maid RPG and tell me your opinion afterwords...

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While I kind of understand what you are implying, the discussion is more in line if you have story about anime maids will the players have fun if the groups is using BESM/BESM D20?, OVA? In Nomine Anime? Gurps? Maid RPG? Nechronica? Fate? Golden Sky Stories? ... etc.
Point can be made that all those can be enjoyable. Will it be the same game? No. It will still be one about anime maids as seen through the combined prospective of the system and group.

TrippyHippy said:

The point about games like Fiasco and Baron Munchausen is that they really don't employ elaborate game mechanics to achieve what they want. They set a tone and provide an organised model of play, but the rest really is up to the players.

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But, tone is important to a game. If you're playing a lighthearted game, then you want a lighthearted system. If you're playing a grim and gritty game, you'll want a game to go with it. Dread won't make a great system for the 1850s London heirs to a fortune game, for example. You don't really want PC death in that game, which means Dread is going to be a bad choice.

Luce said:

While I kind of understand what you are implying, the discussion is more in line if you have story about anime maids will the players have fun if the groups is using BESM/BESM D20?, OVA? In Nomine Anime? Gurps? Maid RPG? Nechronica? Fate? Golden Sky Stories? ... etc.
Point can be made that all those can be enjoyable. Will it be the same game? No. It will still be one about anime maids as seen through the combined prospective of the system and group.

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If you're playing an maid game, perhaps Apocolypse World would be a bad system for it? Starblazers? Pathfinder?

If only limitation is being a maid game then a lot of different stories can be told. Like:
A) An average anybody inherits a large mansion with hundreds of maids.
B) The Warrior-Maids of the Space emperor and their fight against the planet devouring forces of Entropy.
C) A demon lord had fallen, now it is up to the PC, who play female retainers, to ensure the successor is both found and survives to fill the position. (Maid RPG actually have such scenario)

A maid game can focus on combat, housekeeping, resource management (PC being in charge of a whole departments with tens or even hundreds of subordinates). So the "maids" is only one part of the setting. Nothing prevents one from using the Mechwarrior RPG rules if the particular setting have mecha.
To reiterate my earlier points- A given story can be told in a variety of ways and using multiple systems. However the groups (both GM and players) buy in is important. This include factors like familiarity (is it worth to learn a whole new system for the campaign?), associations (Running Wright the Oblivion for light hearth game? Mechanically, why not? Tone wise on the other hand ...), ease of adaptation (Is there a supplement [free fan created or commercial] that can serve as starting point before you make the game your own), system penetration (how eassy is it to find new players) etc.