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Pathfinder 1E Help creating a low level dungeon.

Andrew Ridenour

First Post
Thank you all for you advice. I'll study the Village of Hommlet, to learn how a basic low-level adventure is made. I like Dave's Mapper. It's maps actually feel better then "random generator" maps I've found, like Donjon, which was my favorite. I'll need to look at other Geomorph generators.

Anyways, thanks. (I'd still happily take any and all other bits of advice you want to give.)
 

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Celebrim

Legend
Thank you all for you advice. I'll study the Village of Hommlet, to learn how a basic low-level adventure is made. I like Dave's Mapper. It's maps actually feel better then "random generator" maps I've found, like Donjon, which was my favorite. I'll need to look at other Geomorph generators.

Anyways, thanks. (I'd still happily take any and all other bits of advice you want to give.)

For basic dungeons, read this post (by me) as a starting guide:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?14005-Dramatic-Dungeoncrawling/page3&p=212975&viewfull=1#post212975

So, you've asked about a very broad topic.

What do you want to learn how to do?

a) Create a mega-dungeon?
b) Create basic low level adventures?
c) Create a basic dungeon?

Let me also here depart from the consensus by saying that the Moathouse in T1 is a pretty good example of a basic dungeon, but that T1 isn't necessarily an example of a good low level adventure. Instead, T1 is really a mini-dungeon delve with very little in the way of an adventure to recommend it. Conversely, U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh is a very good little basic adventure, but does not feature a particularly good low level dungeon (although it does do some things right).

And if you want to learn what not to do, consider U2 and U3 which have pretty good core concepts, but pretty lousy execution.
 
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Andrew Ridenour

First Post
a) I'm more or less using the mega styled dungeon to teach myself how to build proper encounters, and things of that nature. Of course, I'd like to learn how to create a good one though, since It's what I'm doing currently.

b) I'd love to learn how to better create a low-level adventure. My main issue is ending the story. I can get them to the "final boss" but I seem to have trouble wrapping up the different stories, and plot lines that they have brought upon themselves, through talking with NPCs, or exploring other things that I don't think of, and am forced to improv on the spot. For the most part, I don't mind it, and feel that it is okay, since I'd like the game to go beyond the basic adventure, and into the world beyond. However, it'd be nice to figure out how to do that.

c) This is something I also have trouble with. In fact, I'd say I have more trouble here, then with my story telling capabilities. Creating something that is concise, and fits into itself, that works not only as a story-telling device, but as something that also works on its own, dungeons just seem to give me a bit of trouble. I'd like, more then anything, to learn how to do this. To learn how to figure out how to create a good, simple, low to mid level dungeon.
 

Wicht

Hero
If you did have some money, I would point you to the dungeon I designed for Adventure Quarterly: Ruins Perilous, as a good example of what I would do, but as you are broke, let me offer my own thoughts.

This is advice for dungeon design, not necessarily adventure design.

First of all, I would suggest you design your first level of the dungeon to get PCs from 1st to 2nd level, the 2nd to get from 2nd to 3rd, etc. Especially with your first few dungeons. Its classic but it works.

This requires that a group have, at medium advancement, somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 level appropriate encounters. Your last encounter should be about 2 CR higher than your group, 3 CR if you want it very tough. At 1st level you want a blend of CRs ranging from 1/2 to 2. The first thing I would do then is go through and make a list of what I want my encounters to be. If you have a "theme" monster, you can use several of these, but an enjoyable dungeon is going to also include a few traps, and a variety of creatures. Pick a couple of animals, a couple of vermin, a couple of undead, etc. by going through your monster books and picking those that seem fun to you. Make sure there is a variety. Also add in a few traps. Doing this gives different classes an opportunity to "shine." (make sure to have a few locked doors and chests as well).

Now, lay out a dungeon, or a map, and do it in a way that seems logical and reasonable, and enjoyable to you. Try to have enough room(s) on the map for each of the encounters you want. As you layout, try to think of what might go where. Place your traps. Try to make them unique in some way.

Indeed, try to do something to make each encounter somehow unique. Templates are a good way of doing this, or using non-standard monsters. Once your dungeon is sketched out and you have a pretty good idea of what goes where, you stat up your monsters and write up your room descriptions. When you do each room, it helps to follow the standard Paizo format of having a general description, followed by a Creature entry, followed by a Treasure entry, followed by a Development entry.

Try to make some of the treasure as you assign it unique and interesting. Treasure is under appreciated sometimes as a way to liven up a dungeon. Try to avoid reliance on stock magical weapons. Again, aim for something unique. Give some of your treasure back-story. Make a magical weapon do something a little extra. Give it a name. There should be some coins, but also a few antiques, some jewelry, etc. Use the treasure charts to determine how much total treasure you need to provide, but put it whereever you want it, or anywhere that seems logical. Its alright for a few encounters to have no treasure and a few encounters to have lots of treasure. Dont' forget that equipment sold counts towards treasure total when doing all of this. In the end, it doesn't have to be exact but you want it fairly close. Don't worry too much about class specific items. Put in what you want and what you think appropriate and rely on your players to choose what to use and how to use it.

Pay attention to the "Development" part of your descriptions as it is what reminds you, as author and DM, what the ramifications of a room can be. If there is interaction between the creatures in different rooms, mention it here.

Don't be afraid to put in a few non-combat encounters (or potential non-combat). In the aforementioned Ruins Perilous, 1st level, I put in a tribe of "Pilfer Monkey's" that would mostly try to pick the pockets of the PCs.

One thing I try to do with each adventure I write is include 1 non-standard magical item (at least 1). This might be a unique magical weapon or a magic item of my own design. I also try to include 1 monster of my own design, or at least a monster I have pilfered and rewritten. If you do this, it will give you practice in creature and magic item design. In a dungeon I also want at least 1 trap that functions a little different than a standard trap just to keep players on their toes.
 


Andrew Ridenour

First Post
First of all, I would suggest you design your first level of the dungeon to get PCs from 1st to 2nd level, the 2nd to get from 2nd to 3rd, etc. Especially with your first few dungeons. Its classic but it works.

This requires that a group have, at medium advancement, somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 level appropriate encounters. Your last encounter should be about 2 CR higher than your group, 3 CR if you want it very tough. At 1st level you want a blend of CRs ranging from 1/2 to 2. The first thing I would do then is go through and make a list of what I want my encounters to be. If you have a "theme" monster, you can use several of these, but an enjoyable dungeon is going to also include a few traps, and a variety of creatures. Pick a couple of animals, a couple of vermin, a couple of undead, etc. by going through your monster books and picking those that seem fun to you. Make sure there is a variety. Also add in a few traps. Doing this gives different classes an opportunity to "shine." (make sure to have a few locked doors and chests as well).

Now, lay out a dungeon, or a map, and do it in a way that seems logical and reasonable, and enjoyable to you. Try to have enough room(s) on the map for each of the encounters you want. As you layout, try to think of what might go where. Place your traps. Try to make them unique in some way.

I want to clarify something. You're basically saying, choose my encounters before I have a map? Right? I could probably do that... I'm use to designing a scenario and then adding in the encounters. You know, start with "Bandits sneak into PC's camp." build what will happen, then I'll decide how many bandits there are. I've never really thought about building a scenario around the encounter before.

Right now, I have the start set up as "Players find a carriage, with what looks like several goblin foot-prints and drag marks leading off to the north. Suddenly, two goblins, previously thought dead, get up, and in a daze, attack." I added the dazed goblins last. So, I'll see what I can do, and see if I can build better, that way.

Once your dungeon is sketched out and you have a pretty good idea of what goes where, you stat up your monsters and write up your room descriptions. When you do each room, it helps to follow the standard Paizo format of having a general description, followed by a Creature entry, followed by a Treasure entry, followed by a Development entry.

What does Development entry mean? The other three are pretty self explanatory, but that one, not sure what it means. (I've not looked at many official paizo modules or adventures, so I don't know there normal layout.

Try to make some of the treasure as you assign it unique and interesting. Treasure is under appreciated sometimes as a way to liven up a dungeon. Try to avoid reliance on stock magical weapons.

Yeah, I'm not good at handing out magic weapons. I always half the feeling that the players should be even when it comes to the stuff, so I tend to give out party packs, as it were, and I can make it a little over-powered... Like giving a level one fighter a +1 shocking glaive, or a level 1 druid a +1 thundering dagger. I've been holding back as of late... but I'll try my damnedest to make it something a bit more worthwhile, as it were. (Also, have to stop my players from enchanting any ol' weapon they find at any ol' shop they pass by, as well.)

Don't be afraid to put in a few non-combat encounters (or potential non-combat).

I don't even have to try, my players can talk themselves out of any fight they choose, be it a talking ape bent on mankind's destruction a la Gorilla Grodd, or Ogres that only know the path of hate and destruction... (No joke, the party rogue talked a pair of Ogres out of stampeding a village, because they'd not be nearly as thorough as the villagers themselves.)
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
I use a strange little method to write up dungeons. It helps speed up generation (for me) and, so far, they've turned out pretty good.

First of all, I have abbreviations for what each room is about:

E(3) - empty - nothing much there, just dungeon dressing
M(3) - monster
M$(2) - monster with treasure (meaning I roll for treasure for that monster)
S(3) - strategic/tactical - some kind of advantage for the PCs (sometimes monsters); like arrow slits, a peephole, or whatever
I(4) - information about the dungeon
I/S(3) - information and strategic/tactical at the same time!
T(1) - trap or trick - not just a bunch of arrows shooting out of the wall, the whole room is one big crazy deathtrap (or deal with the devil, in the case of a trick)
X(1) - special - a keynote room or just something really strange
$(1) - treasure - a vault or treasure horde, lots of treasure

Then I figure out the distribution (the number in brackets, which I find works okay).

Then I break these down into groups of five rooms each:
1. I figure that one room is the "goal" room - it provides a nice benefit. In the early part of the dungeon, it's usually an Information or Information/Strat room. Later on it's the Special or Treasure room.
2. Then I put down the "start" room - usually Empty, maybe Info, sometimes Strat - and the "hard" path to the goal room (through a Monster room or the Trap room).
3. I put a "blocked passage" between the goal room and the start room - an obvious sign that there's a room beyond, to tempt the players, something that can't easily be accessed. At 1st level, a chasm that's too far to jump is a good one; the PCs can't fly or climb that well, but they might be able to work out a method across.
4. Then I work out an alternate route to the goal room. Could be through a secret door in an Empty room. Something that's not obvious.

Once I get the first set done, I move onto the next, connecting each group of rooms as I go. I usually try to put in a chokepoint that cuts the dungeon in half - usually using the Trap room.

At this stage it's just a flowchart with a bunch of letters. In order to actually make the dungeon, I start off with either the Monsters, the Treasure, or the Special room. If I go with Monsters, it's usually a lair: who lives in here, and why? If I go with Treasure, it's usually some kind of ruin or crypt: who built this place and what did they leave behind? If I go with a Special, it's usually some kind of crazy thing I think would be cool: in the middle of this place there's a fusion reactor.

Going with Monsters is usually the easiest because you can just look at the list of monsters by CR for ones that fit the danger level of your dungeon and pick some that interest you.

Now that I know the theme I map out the dungeon. Then I work in the Info and Strat rooms: if I have a bunch of stirges I can put some Information down about them (corpses drained of blood) and Strat for the PCs (maybe some kind of "airlock" room that allows the PCs to fight only a couple at a time) and against the PCs (a big old cavern with many places for the stirges to hide, attack and flee from). With the map laid out I can add my secret doors and add Info rooms about them.

The Trap room always takes me a long time to work out, but that's because I tend to overthink it.

Then I make sure that there's at least some Information about everything in the dungeon. And I fiddle around with it to make sure I didn't do something stupid.
 

Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
Development simply means how this encounter can expand further, by triggering other encounters, providing information about other encounters, events or locations in the adventure, region or world.

Personally, I'm a big fan of slightly overpowered basic items - weapons, armour; the other things that make up 3.xE's "big six" - because it means if I forget to add magic items later, the PCs are already slightly ahead of where they should be. Also, I realise that the pricing maths treats a +1 thundering weapon as a +2 weapon and therefore suitable for level 6 or higher characters, a +1 weapon is essentially boring, no matter how much of a story is attached to it, and it's better to simply making it something like a +1 thundering weapon... where the thunder damage is represented by screaming skulls, for example.

I also concur with the idea of working out the monsters in advance. Not all of them, of course - others will spring to mind as you create your encounters and fill in your map - but a monster roster can really help you work out what you will be trying to fit on to your map and your map will also reflect your monsters' needs in a logical fashion.

What I do is list out a rough monster roster. Here's an example from a 4E campaign I am working on:


  • aspect of Kostchtchie; level 11 elite brute
  • frost giant; level 1 or 2 solo brute, level 6 elite brute, or level 10 brute
  • ice ogre; level 1 elite brute, level 5 brute
  • snow goblins; level 1 skirmisher
  • taer; level 3 brute
  • white dragons; various levels, principally brutes but potential for controllers and skirmishers also
  • winter wolf; level 2 elite skirmisher, level 6 skirmisher
  • yeti; level 4 soldier


This is for the whole campaign but the principle is the same. In your case, running Pathfinder, simply substitute the monster's CR for where I have the monster's level and role. I also include my key NPCs on the same monster roster. As this campaign is still in an early outline stage I haven't started working those in yet.

I would also point you to an article by James Wyatt on the WotC website called Building-Block Adventure Design (it's hyperlinked) which suggests building everything around the rule of three. I know it sounds horribly simple - and it grew out of watching his son create adventures - but it really works. I've been using it ever since.

Try designing your dungeon around three encounters. These may take place over more than three rooms but get the three encounters designed first and then map them out. In the process of doing so, you will find three more. Just keep doing that until your adventure is ready to go. I would also add, try and give each of your three encounters a theme that holds them together.

For example, if you are looking at a dungeon under a cemetery, you might decide that your first theme is an area of the catacombs where undead have been awakened. Your encounters might be ghouls then ghouls and ghasts and then a dread ghast necromancer. However, the encounters take place over five chambers of catacombs on the maps. Two of those chambers are empty but incautious play might attract the neighbouring creatures.

Another themed area is an area of natural caverns free from the taint of undead. Maybe you have an entrance area where mobats and bat swarms dwell leading to passages leading deeper underground to a fungus garden where phantom stalkers are the threat before reaching a chasm that needs to be crossed but there are cave fishers taking pot-shots at the PCs from above.

Here's a basic equation to consider:

(Theme + three encounters) x repeat as required = a dungeon that makes sense and works
 



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