D&D 5E Does anyone DIE in D&D Next: Stabilization Problems

Though we enjoy D&D Next and plan on pushing to the final product, we have several issues that also appear in various posts. But our latest problems are related to PCs at 0 HP; specifically to Stabilization and the one round relatively easy DC10 Medicine Check. We now require that after a successful Medicine check, the dying player needs 3 uninterupted rounds of 'non-magical' healing from the aid giver. During these rounds, the dying player does NOT need to roll Death Throws. If this process is interupted by a successful attack on either character, the dying character is back to Death Throws. After 3 rounds of 'bandaging', another DC10 Medicine check is used to complete the process. This serves the purpose of penalizing the party with the loss of 2 PCs for a major part of the encounter as well as forcing the party to move the dying character to safety. I also don't like the Spare the Dying cantrip but I can't change every rule....

I'm not sure there is a question here. You've stated that you want a very deadly game where getting to 0 hp means a lot and then said how you solved it. Good job.

Rephrased

I guess the question or problem that we had internally was handled by my post. However, is everyone else home brewing such significant areas like death? Do you all see the same issue that we confronted? Does anyone else feel like the process of Stabilization is way too lenient, especially considering the huge amount of negative damage that is just thrown away, forgotton (upto max HPs)? Players from AD&D would surely be shocked.

In previous iterations of the play test materials, character death was easier. COmpare March/April 2013, which had:

You die when your hit points drop to a number that equals your Constitution score plus your character level expressed as a negative value. If you’re 5th level and have a 14 Constitution, for example, you die when your hit points drop to −19.

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I preferred this to the current rule, and it did mean several characters died in play test combats. Though we didn't play to higher levels, the risk would have continued, as opposed to the current state where characters seem only to be especially vulnerable for levels 1-3.

That is to say: I see the problem not with the rules for stabilization, but with negative hit points. And I hope they return to something like this.

EDIT: with these earlier rules, we did have characters die regularly.

Death saves

We have certainly seen deaths. Usually when the circumstances are more dire and exciting. Though I think that it is more deadly than some might expect, however DMs find ways to spare the heroes so it doesn't mess up the story.

I believe the current rule is pretty darn good, actually. However there are many scenarios where it is deadly.

Sometimes your allies can't get to you and all you have are your own Death Saves. If you or your allies are prone, held, magically sleeping, or in webs, or if you fall off a cliff, or are swallowed by a monster... these are all barriers to being brought back.

A DC 10 Wisdom check to stabilize or DC 10 Saving throw is not as automatic as some might infer.

Roll a 1 on a Death Save? 2 Failures. Owch.

Every time you take damage, whether from a weapon, spell, or ongoing hazard, you get a Death Save failure. (Imagine being pulled down by a bunch of kobolds. If one attack drops you to 0, 3 more hits (from attacks made with advantage now that you're helpless) kill you outright. Or if you're near a stinking cloud or wall of fire, you'll start racking up the failures.

Once dying, a particularly vicious enemy can just use an action to coup to grace.

Even if Spare the Dying is used and you stand up, if you take the heat from a hard-hitting bad guy again, that 1 hit point puts you in danger of getting killed outright if the excess damage is as much as your max hit points.

Despite all these dangers, I like that healers and other allies can be useful and use their precious actions to bring you back into the fight.

... in my opinion.

Stabilization is way too easy, especially with spare the dying. I've been DMing since the beginning of the public playtest, and I've only seen four character deaths: One when a player foolishly ran off on his own during an invasion of a fortified beachhead, two from a critical failure on a death save while the cleric was incapacitated, and one from energy drain (which kills you at 0, bypassing negative hp).

I still prefer dead at zero.

Kobold Stew said:

In previous iterations of the play test materials, character death was easier. COmpare March/April 2013, which had:



I preferred this to the current rule, and it did mean several characters died in play test combats. Though we didn't play to higher levels, the risk would have continued, as opposed to the current state where characters seem only to be especially vulnerable for levels 1-3.

That is to say: I see the problem not with the rules for stabilization, but with negative hit points. And I hope they return to something like this.

EDIT: with these earlier rules, we did have characters die regularly.

Click to expand...

I like this too. I also like how a failed stabilization added injured the PC even more 1d6 damage.

I think the rules for dying are fine. DC 10 may sound easy, but for a typical person, that's a coin toss. They're as likely to waste their turn and accomplish nothing as they are to stabilize their friend. The person who is administering first aid is taking a turn out of the battle that could have been used to deal damage or contribute to victory in some other way. I've also found the death saving throws to be much less forgiving than 3e's bleed for 1 hp per round rule.

The only problem I have is with spare the dying. It's too easy to create a death yo-yo where characters pop up to life, get knocked back down, and pop back to life again. I think the best solution is to simply change that cantrip so that it only automatically stabilizes the target rather than healing them 1 hp.

Falling Icicle said:

The only problem I have is with spare the dying. It's too easy to create a death yo-yo where characters pop up to life, get knocked back down, and pop back to life again. I think the best solution is to simply change that cantrip so that it only automatically stabilizes the target rather than healing them 1 hp.

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I prefer it as it is, frankly.

The "death yo-yo" is only an artefact of individual play styles; that's not a problem with the game. It's narrative not mechanics. The mechanics are fine. The cantrip heals 1 hp only to characters who are at zero hit points, at range touch. Your alternative makes it a weaker spell, and means that the spell recipient is still unable to remove herself from immediate danger, or heal herself.