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I'm perfectly fine with the greataxe /greatsword distribution. There's something very satisfying about rolling that d12 when i'm sinking that honking big axe home. Plus, if the crit rules are correct as explained just now, that means the swinginess of it will fit in perfectly with those who want that d12 over the very mean-averaging greatsword or maul. You don't pick a barbarian hit die or a greataxe for playing the averages. Wrong math or not, it's just emotionally satisfying.

GX.Sigma said:

Second of all, the greataxe is useless. Look at it. 1d12. The maul and greatsword (which are otherwise similar to the greataxe) have 2d6. Just think about that for a second. The greataxe can deal 1-12 damage. The maul can deal 2-12 damage. In fact, if you do the math, 2d6 averages one point higher than 1d12. So why in the world would anyone use the greataxe?

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It crits better. The average (which for normal damage is 0.5 points apart) comes out pretty much the same, depending a little bit on how often you hit.

I agree that there are problems with the weapon list. It's filled with dud weapons; system mastery rears its head again. I was really hoping they'd fix these before final release. As shown (not considering external effects like limited weapon proficiencies driving particular choices, class features or feats improving certain weapons, magic weapon choices, etc.), and not considering cost and weight as important factors since they're all pretty low:

- The club, the greatclub, and the mace(!), are strictly inferior to the quarterstaff. The only thing granting even the quarterstaff some value is that it's the only decent bludgeoning simple weapon.
- Why does the light hammer do less damage than the handaxe?

The only simple melee weapons worth considering are the dagger (for finesse), the handaxe, the javelin (maybe, for throwing range, although a spear is better otherwise), the quarterstaff (if you really want bludgeoning damage), and the spear. The rest are traps.

Similarly, the morningstar is only useful if you want a piercing weapon and really don't care about using Dex with it (otherwise use a rapier), and the trident is just a more expensive, heavier spear. Why is the trident a martial weapon? Why does it even exist as separate from a spear?

Mistwell said:

It's one thing to be a charop guy.

It's another to not even comprehend that most people are not charop'ers.

Use your imagination. Why do you think someone might want to choose a greatsword over a greataxe? No, stop talking about DPR and math at all, and ask yourself why someone might want one over the other.

If you really cannot figure it out, that will be telling.

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My character uses a greataxe and will continue doing so no matter the lesser damage, or any other insults that wizards bestows upon axes, yet again, in yet another edition of D&D. I totally concur with GX Sygma. If they wanted to differentiate the three great weapons, they would be better off doing it via fighting style benefits.

I also don't like the fact that greatswords and maul uses roll 2 damage dice, it makes them more reliably attain their average expected damage, and extra dice rolls slow the game down. The d12 becomes another seldom used dice yet again. In one of the earlier playtest packets dwarves got to upgrade their damage dice a step for axes, 2d6 was a very good insurance against rolling a natural 1 for damage on a d12 weapon.

If anything, axes should do 2d6 instead of swords. The chance of doing the least amount of damage is minimized since the impact is concentrated in one area of the weapon. Swords can graze their target more readily than a solid axe hit can.

Remathilis said:

I realize this is the "basic/starter" list, but...

Where did Slings and Flails go?

EDIT: Also missing from the playtest: Great Club, Sickle, Javelin, Dart, Glaive, Lance, Halbred, Pike, War Pick, Whip, Blowgun, Bolas, Net. Guess these will be in the PHB.

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Greatclub and javelin are in the Simple Weapon list.

Henry said:

I'm perfectly fine with the greataxe /greatsword distribution. There's something very satisfying about rolling that d12 when i'm sinking that honking big axe home. Plus, if the crit rules are correct as explained just now, that means the swinginess of it will fit in perfectly with those who want that d12 over the very mean-averaging greatsword or maul. You don't pick a barbarian hit die or a greataxe for playing the averages. Wrong math or not, it's just emotionally satisfying.

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Hmm good point. It seems like rolling max damage will happen one in every 36 rolls on average, compared with one in every 12 for greataxes.

I really hope the great weapon style is indeed Brutal 1 or 2 as I've heard it was changed to. Too bad nobody is willing to confirm that yet. That would take the sting out of this weapon table further.

Barbarians and fighters get a lot of mileage out of the greataxe. Fighters, of course, can get expanded crit range. What is really exciting, though, is the fact that barabarians almost always have advantage on attacks. That will lead to a good number of crits. Given this (and I'll have to run the math), greataxes are likely *optimal* for simple fighters and barbarians.

Mistwell said:

You roll one die of the base damage for the crit damage. So if it's a 2d6 base damage, the crit die is 1d6. If it's a 1d12 base, the crit die is 1d12.

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I'm pretty sure that Mearls, in answering a question via tweet a while back, said that this is probably a mistake, and the greatsword should probably get +2d6 on a crit. Not saying this is a sure thing, as he may have been mistaken/it may have been changed, but I'd avoid betting money either way.

the Jester said:

I'm pretty sure that Mearls, in answering a question via tweet a while back, said that this is probably a mistake, and the greatsword should probably get +2d6 on a crit. Not saying this is a sure thing, as he may have been mistaken/it may have been changed, but I'd avoid betting money either way.

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I remember that too now.

Meaning it was a conscious decision to make greatsword the be all end all of 5th edition, don't bother looking elsewhere in the boring table, this is it. After you realize that, you never have to refer to that page of the game again, as a player, unless you find a magic weapon. Then, at which point, you need to ask yourself, why are they making magic greataxes /whatever else at all, when a magic greatsword would be strictly better anyway for the same materials cost.

It's the kind of design that creeps into other areas of the game and makes you wonder why anyone ever in a D&D world used some of these weapons or armor types.

Mistwell said:

You roll one die of the base damage for the crit damage. So if it's a 2d6 base damage, the crit die is 1d6. If it's a 1d12 base, the crit die is 1d12.

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This has yet to be confirmed in the final rules.

Also, Mearls muddied the water with a tweet saying that Greatswords are supposed to deal +2d6 damage on a Critical Hit. Intent of the designers was unknown, and Mearls hasn't been the most trustworthy of sources. I hope he was full of crap, but to be honest, this really isn't a big deal for me.

DDNFan said:

I remember that too now.

Meaning it was a conscious decision to make greatsword the be all end all of 5th edition, don't bother looking elsewhere in the boring table, this is it. After you realize that, you never have to refer to that page of the game again, as a player, unless you find a magic weapon. Then, at which point, you need to ask yourself, why are they making magic greataxes /whatever else at all, when a magic greatsword would be strictly better anyway for the same materials cost.

It's the kind of design that creeps into other areas of the game and makes you wonder why anyone ever in a D&D world used some of these weapons or armor types.

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Ehh, I'm fine with a +.5 hp/hit average difference. I'll take an axe for style anytime I want an axe-wielder; the difference isn't nearly enough to bug me. But I recognize that for some people, it's an issue. Here's hoping there are easy ways to tweak it to make it better suited to your taste.