D&D 5E Great Weapon Fighting

occam · Jul 4, 2014

Stalker0 said:
Has any run the math on TWF vs GW before extra attacks?

I know that at least several months ago, TWF was always better than GW (both in terms of accuracy to hit and average damage). I was curious if with the new math that had changed. As others have pointed out, extra attacks start skewing the math back towards GW.

Two-weapon is still good to begin with. Ignoring crits:

Average damage on a hit with GWF using a greatsword or maul
- 14 Str: 10 ⅓ points of damage
- 16 Str: 11 ⅓ points of damage
- 18 Str: 12 ⅓ points of damage
- 20 Str: 13 ⅓ points of damage

Average damage on 2 hits with TWF using scimitars or shortswords
- 14 Str or Dex: 11 points of damage
- 16 Str or Dex: 13 points of damage
- 18 Str or Dex: 15 points of damage
- 20 Str or Dex: 17 points of damage

Things change for a 5th-level fighter with Extra Attack:

Average damage on 2 hits with GWF using a greatsword or maul
- 14 Str: 20 ⅔ points of damage
- 16 Str: 22 ⅔ points of damage
- 18 Str: 24 ⅔ points of damage
- 20 Str: 26 ⅔ points of damage

Average damage on 3 hits with TWF using scimitars or shortswords
- 14 Str or Dex: 16 ½ points of damage
- 16 Str or Dex: 19 ½ points of damage
- 18 Str or Dex: 22 ½ points of damage
- 20 Str or Dex: 25 ½ points of damage

Action Surge and more Extra Attacks just magnify the eventual advantage of Great Weapon Fighting.

occam · Jul 5, 2014

occam said:
Two-weapon is still good to begin with. Ignoring crits:

Average damage on a hit with GWF using a greatsword or maul
- 14 Str: 10 ⅓ points of damage
- 16 Str: 11 ⅓ points of damage
- 18 Str: 12 ⅓ points of damage
- 20 Str: 13 ⅓ points of damage

Average damage on 2 hits with TWF using scimitars or shortswords
- 14 Str or Dex: 11 points of damage
- 16 Str or Dex: 13 points of damage
- 18 Str or Dex: 15 points of damage
- 20 Str or Dex: 17 points of damage

Things change for a 5th-level fighter with Extra Attack:

Average damage on 2 hits with GWF using a greatsword or maul
- 14 Str: 20 ⅔ points of damage
- 16 Str: 22 ⅔ points of damage
- 18 Str: 24 ⅔ points of damage
- 20 Str: 26 ⅔ points of damage

Average damage on 3 hits with TWF using scimitars or shortswords
- 14 Str or Dex: 16 ½ points of damage
- 16 Str or Dex: 19 ½ points of damage
- 18 Str or Dex: 22 ½ points of damage
- 20 Str or Dex: 25 ½ points of damage

Action Surge and more Extra Attacks just magnify the eventual advantage of Great Weapon Fighting.

Just to see how bad it'll get, let's look at 20th level, when fighters get 3 Extra Attacks. Assuming they'll have (at least) a 20 in Str or Dex by then:

Average damage on 4 hits with GWF using a greatsword or maul
- 20 Str: 53 ⅓ points of damage

Average damage on 5 hits with TWF using scimitars or shortswords
- 20 Str or Dex: 42 ½ points of damage

By then the fighter would also have two Action Surges, which would double the total damage potential for a GWF fighter (106 ⅔ average damage on 8 hits), and improve the TWF fighter's average damage on 9 hits to 76 ½ points.

Plane Sailing · Jul 6, 2014

redwizard99 said:
Thank you all.
I understand what you guys are saying.
But for the meaning of "damage die" in D&D, it is 2d6 for greatsword and 1d12 for greataxe.
They are just one "damage die roll" displays in different ways, it is not saying greatsword attacking two times with 1d6 each, right?
For me, it is just weird that the "Great weapon fighting" feature gives the 2d6 two rerolling chance instead of one. It is just a game balance concern.
Thank you for your opinion.

FWIW I'd be running it that way - so 2d6 weapons trade higher average damage and more predictable damage for less likelihood of getting the GWF reroll on a 1-2.

Cheers

Nagol · Jul 6, 2014

Plane Sailing said:
FWIW I'd be running it that way - so 2d6 weapons trade higher average damage and more predictable damage for less likelihood of getting the GWF reroll on a 1-2.

Cheers

Or in other words, Fighters shouldn't bother choosing that fighting style if they are using 2d6 weapons? At that point, almost any other choice is better even if it applies to a secondary form of combat.

Stalker0 · Jul 6, 2014

Plane Sailing said:
FWIW I'd be running it that way - so 2d6 weapons trade higher average damage and more predictable damage for less likelihood of getting the GWF reroll on a 1-2.

Cheers

If you do that though....why would anyone take GWF? I would just take the +1 AC and call it a day.

Plane Sailing · Jul 6, 2014

Either of which I'd be completely cool with. I think that over the last fifteen years two handed weapons have received too much love and been made too attractive in many ways. Fighting with a two handed weapon and using one of the other fighter styles could be very interesting.

D&D 5E Great Weapon Fighting

occam

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occam

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Plane Sailing

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Nagol

Unimportant

Stalker0

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