D&D 5E Char Ops forums: Something I wish hadn't come over.

Corpsetaker · Sep 18, 2015

The Character Ops forums are something I wish would die with the Wizards forums and not have made their way over here.

I find this type of culture very disruptive to the game overall because it breeds a type who think that you aren't playing a class right if you don't choose the most optimal choice, or there is a problem with class A if it's optimal choices don't out it on par with class B.

I was a Min/Maxer back in the day and I can tell you that it always led to games that were not pleasant. It ruined the fun for everyone at the table.

I think it's also why we saw the errata treadmill of 4th edition because as soon as new things came out, CO was finding that power X plus combo Y + Q was overpowered and so the next errata tried to fix it again only to cause even worse results.

I hope it's changed from what it was, but what I remember was basically all about the DPR.

Sunseeker · Sep 18, 2015

I always optimize. That doesn't mean I dump on other people. I'm happy to give advice, but I'd never tell another player what spells or abilities they need to pick. So honestly if you min/maxed and it ruined other people's fun, that's entirely on you. I've played with plenty of min/maxers who are fun folks.

Bawylie · Sep 18, 2015

I think the charops people are keen-minded and their work is approachable and valuable.

If you want to understand the nuts and bolts of your class, or find a synergy, if your interest in the game includes tinkering, charops is there for you.

I love my corvette. I love driving it - and that's my favorite experience with it. But I still read all about performance enhancements, which transmissions people are pairing with which engines. Etc. Because from time to time, I'm also a tinkerer in my car.

DND is enjoyable on so many levels, I wouldn't ever want to simply shut the door on any one area.

CharOps, ILU.

Paraxis · Sep 18, 2015

On the other hand I am very happy the char-op forums and guides found a new home. It was about the only place on the wizards forums I ever even visited this past year.

If character optimization isn't for a person or a group of people that is fine, just like those people and groups that love char-op are fine.

We need to stop trying to divide our community into subgroups, optimizer, min/maxer, purist, narrativist, whatever and just be happy that we can talk about something we are all passionate about in a nice place like ENworld.

D&D if you and those in your game are having fun you are doing it right.

Morrus · Sep 18, 2015

Corpsetaker said:
The Character Ops forums are something I wish would die with the Wizards forums and not have made their way over here.

We've had a Char Ops forum here for ages. It didn't "come over".

Valus · Sep 18, 2015

I don't mind a Char Op forum (we already have one, anyway,) I just hope people get used to posting in the right forum for their subject as things settle down. I am not a huge min/maxer for whom DPR is god, but I'll definitely take a look at those forums when I am making to a new character, because I often find insights that make me look at a certain spell or feature in a new light.

FormerlyHemlock · Sep 18, 2015

Corpsetaker said:
The Character Ops forums are something I wish would die with the Wizards forums and not have made their way over here.

I find this type of culture very disruptive to the game overall because it breeds a type who think that you aren't playing a class right if you don't choose the most optimal choice, or there is a problem with class A if it's optimal choices don't out it on par with class B.

Presumably that's because, out of the various kinds of fun in D&D (http://angrydm.com/2014/01/gaming-for-fun-part-1-eight-kinds-of-fun/), the ones that involve charops are not fun to you. You do need to have a compatible playstyle with other people in your group.

Personally, I do enjoy fun type #4 (Challenge) so I enjoy optimizing my own characters, but the way charops posters write tends to turn me off because I believe they use simplistic assumptions which don't function well in a complex game, like the games I prefer. E.g. "assume 20 rounds of combat per day", as if combat rounds would ever be a fixed quantity independent of PC actions. They also tend to write as if the opponents will be passive targets of their wrath instead of intelligent beings who want to live. I like optimizing for contingencies, so that no matter what happens, I will have the best-possible chance of surviving or even prevailing, even if I fall down a chute into the 9th level of the dungeon at level 3. Therefore I don't enjoy optimizing novas in a five-minute work day.

De gustibus, though.

ExploderWizard · Sep 18, 2015

Corpsetaker said:
The Character Ops forums are something I wish would die with the Wizards forums and not have made their way over here.

I find this type of culture very disruptive to the game overall because it breeds a type who think that you aren't playing a class right if you don't choose the most optimal choice, or there is a problem with class A if it's optimal choices don't out it on par with class B.

I was a Min/Maxer back in the day and I can tell you that it always led to games that were not pleasant. It ruined the fun for everyone at the table.

I think it's also why we saw the errata treadmill of 4th edition because as soon as new things came out, CO was finding that power X plus combo Y + Q was overpowered and so the next errata tried to fix it again only to cause even worse results.

I hope it's changed from what it was, but what I remember was basically all about the DPR.

If a thing exists then there will be fans of it. Don't worry about it to much and let people enjoy what they do. Of course in your own games feel free to beat the munchkins away with a blunt instrument- it works.

Barantor · Sep 18, 2015

Everyone has fun in their own way, find people that have similar views as you and enjoy but don't dump on others for playing the way they want to.

steeldragons · Sep 18, 2015

I am guessing he is referring/mistaking the fact that a change was made to be able to SEE the charop threads in the D&D 5th [general stuff] forum happened to happen on the same day as the WotC closing announcement, as they "came over." They didn't, it's just the ENworld charop threads (most of which were/are already here in the "Charop" a.k.a. "Character Builds & Optimization" forum.

I concur with the wish for them to be removed from the [general/main] "D&D 5th" forum, along with the Homebrew and AL threads as they have their own sub-forum homes as well, and have addressed this in the Meta forum thread, here, "Request: Move the Optimization Section back into the General 5e Section" whence this alteration stemmed.

It would be nice for them to return to not be visible here anymore and, other than the originator of that thread, I've not seen or heard anyone complain about the subforums. Let those who wish to go post/read/comment on those, separate and distinct, topics do so in the appropriate sub-forum.

I would urge any/all who agree to share and make known your preference in the Meta forum thread, linked above.

D&D 5E Char Ops forums: Something I wish hadn't come over.

Corpsetaker

First Post

Sunseeker

Guest

Bawylie

A very OK person

Paraxis

Explorer

Morrus

Well, that was fun

Valus

First Post

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

ExploderWizard

Hero

Barantor

Explorer

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons

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