D&D 5E Why traps in D&D usually suck

Li Shenron said:

You might at most argue that playing dumb if your PC is indeed low-Int is better roleplay than playing it smart. But it is preposterous to pretend that someone has to do it, when the consequences (failing a puzzle) are detrimental to the whole group and when it is impossible for others to do the opposite i.e. roleplay a PC as more intelligent than the player is.

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And yet, the consequences of not role-playing a low-Int character as dumb are also detrimental to the whole group. If we're all trying to enjoy this game, and stay invested in our characters, then it hurts suspension of disbelief for everyone at the table for one character to intentionally role-play poorly.

Of course, at that point it's a matter of priorities, since it's also bad for the whole group to be trapped by a puzzle that nobody can pass. (Which raises the question of what would have happened if that one player hadn't been able to solve it; mandatory puzzles with only one solution kind of went out-of-style along with deathtrap dungeons.)

And the difficulty of role-playing a smarter character is a definite issue of discussion, although it possibly warrants its own thread. Suffice it to say that there is no real consensus on the matter. My personal recommendation is to not include an intelligence stat in the game, and just leave that whole thing up to the player to define.

Li Shenron said:

You might at most argue that playing dumb if your PC is indeed low-Int is better roleplay than playing it smart. But it is preposterous to pretend that someone has to do it, when the consequences (failing a puzzle) are detrimental to the whole group and when it is impossible for others to do the opposite i.e. roleplay a PC as more intelligent than the player is.

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Saelorn said:

And yet, the consequences of not role-playing a low-Int character as dumb are also detrimental to the whole group. If we're all trying to enjoy this game, and stay invested in our characters, then it hurts suspension of disbelief for everyone at the table for one character to intentionally role-play poorly.

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Ultimately, it's the entertainment of the players that matters. That's going to look different at different tables. It probably looks different on different days.

When I was in college, we started a game after midterms. It was a really, really vicious semester for me and this was at 2:00 AM. I made a barbarian and the DM let me sell off my mental stats for more muscle (at a 2:1 penalty). I ended up with a 4 INT and a 5 WIS. I was so fried that it worked perfectly -- I couldn't think through anything. It was an absolute riot and I continued to play the character, even after getting some sleep. I had to be almost zen about it, but it was grand. The entire group was brought to laughter multiple times every session (this is the only time I've played for comedy relief). It worked, in part, because other characters were played with exaggerated reserve, which offset my character. I also "let" one of the other PCs fast talk me into being his buddy, so he was able to turn gross stupidity into just an amusing quip.

Sure, it endangered the group on a regular basis. I had at least one moment most sessions where I was sure I was going to need a new character. But, I'm pretty sure the DM would have played it so that the dracolich (or whatever I'd vexed) only ate my character and I was fine with that, for the entertainment value. So was everyone else.

Relevance to the topic? Regardless of whether you're challenging the player or the character, you have to engage the player. Sometimes, that's best served by granting the Rogue a few minutes of screen time and a few die rolls. Others, it's in having a puzzle trap that has everyone thinking but few, if any, dice.

If you want a memorable trap, figuring out which dice to roll should be part of the climax, with the actual act of rolling being almost the denouement.

Mercule said:

If you want a memorable trap, figuring out which dice to roll should be part of the climax, with the actual act of rolling being almost the denouement.

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xp for using the word denouement. It is apropos to storytelling.

[MENTION=6803552]DMSage[/MENTION]

Well, technically, a rogue of 11th level or higher who rolls a 1 on a Wisdom (Perception) check treats their result as a 10, thanks to Reliable Talent. And then there's passive Perception. So those somewhat neuter the impact of your "epic level rogue" comic strip.

But, I think you've articulated some solid principles of running traps, particularly the bits about foreshadowing traps, making them appropriate to the setting/trap-maker, and presenting major traps as a puzzles.

I'm not clear what you're saying about the Perception skill as it relates to traps, however. A concrete example might help ground your rather theoretical top-down approach.

After following this thread to it's current conclusion I'm disappointed that there aren't more example puzzle/traps people have used, especially from the people who say they like them in game, personally I'm not great at including traps in my game as I find them very difficult to come up with also doesn't help that the other DM in my group is quite good at them so please post some if you have them

I think the majority usually suck, well the majority i've encountered, they are used for no reason at all. Except to say, "wow, this looks like a cool place for a trap. I think i'll put a pit with spikes here." These random traps that are in main hallways, don't the denizens need to traverse this area frequently? Why would they put a trap there, it's more of a hassle. What's the word i'm looking for, architectural integrity. That's it. Most don't seem to have any architectural integrity. Traps to defend an entrance or valuable object, i can see those. But your random haphazard trap that's placed to justify a spot hidden roll or to give a thief a chance to make a roll, nothing but tripe. Make it exciting, useful, give it a reason!

possessedbyfiredemon said:

After following this thread to it's current conclusion I'm disappointed that there aren't more example puzzle/traps people have used, especially from the people who say they like them in game, personally I'm not great at including traps in my game as I find them very difficult to come up with also doesn't help that the other DM in my group is quite good at them so please post some if you have them

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I previously posted this in a thread on adjudicating Investigation, but I think it's a good example of how a simple trap can be good for encouraging engagement with the exploration pillar of the game.


Red Creek Rufus, a beastmaster ranger, explores the ruins of a sunken citadel once held by elves that venerated dragons.

Player: Red Creek Rufus holds his torch firmly and enters the corridor.
DM: The air is stale in this 20-foot-long corridor, which leads to another closed stone door in front of which the ubiquitous rubble of this ruin has piled. A hallway leads north but stops short in ruin. An arrow, larger than one that a human would loose from a bow is lodged into the wall next to the door you opened. What do you do?
Player: I pull that arrow out of the wall and examine it.
DM: The arrow is old and splintered from its age and the impact. Its tip is stained black.
Player: Hmm, elves wouldn't use an arrow this large. This stain might be poison. I try to deduce from what or where this arrow might have come, drawing upon years in the wilds hunting with bow and arrow.
DM (figuring the outcome is uncertain): You're no slouch with a bow, that's for sure. Let's see a DC 10 Intelligence (Investigation) check.
Player: Okay. *rolls* 12.
DM: Given its downward angle when it was lodged in the wall, it appears to have been loosed from the ceiling of the far wall. What do you do?
Player: This sounds like a trap. I look around the immediate area for any tripwires or pressure plates, staying exactly where I'm standing to be on the safe side for now.
DM (figuring the outcome is uncertain): Let's see a DC 15 Wisdom (Perception) check.
Player: *rolls* 15, on the money.
DM: There are variations in the mortar and stone of the floor in the middle portion of the corridor compared to the surrounding floor - you were right to expect pressure plates.
Player: Hmm. that's about a 10-foot-square area. I could jump if it I gave it a good run, but leaping into rubble might be tricky...

Bawylie said:

You know why traps suck too often? Because they treat our players like the Wet Bandits from Home Alone.

That's entertaining to watch from the kid's perspective. It's hell if you're a bandit though.

These kinds of blunder-into-a-landmine style traps are realistic enough, I guess. But realistic isn't enough.

But you can't treat your players like the wet bandits. It just isn't fun.

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The wet bandits sucked because the kid was working with knowledge of their potential actions that was ridiculously accurate. Every trap he set rolled a 20 on it's attack roll. Every little bit of damage the bandits took delayed them for extended periods of time. Playing as the wet bandits wouldn't be fun because the DM was cheating his ass off. Oh, and also the players were singularly uncreative. "Well, I guess every time we trigger a trap, we try a different method of entry, solo and through an obvious ingress!"

In fact, setting up home alone in an RPG sounds like it could be a great game. The key would be actually determining the resources, knowledge and time available to the 'kid' and then letting the players control the 'wet bandits' appropriately. My guess is that after the second or third trap, the players will do something that circumvents everything you've got prepared, most likely involving partial demolition of the inside of the house, or building a makeshift tank.

possessedbyfiredemon said:

After following this thread to it's current conclusion I'm disappointed that there aren't more example puzzle/traps people have used, especially from the people who say they like them in game, personally I'm not great at including traps in my game as I find them very difficult to come up with also doesn't help that the other DM in my group is quite good at them so please post some if you have them

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I've lost a lot of data from my old laptop sadly, but I could try to recreate some of the puzzle-traps I used.

Thing is, they're incredibly campaign and scenario specific in terms of the riddles and lore they reference. So, for example, the Daggerdale Thieves' Guild Throw-a-Knife Door puzzle-trap or the Royal Codex in the Haunted Library puzzle-trap might work as a good example for inspiration, but it probably wouldn't be 1-for-1 transferrable into your own game without quite a bit of work.

possessedbyfiredemon said:

After following this thread to it's current conclusion I'm disappointed that there aren't more example puzzle/traps people have used, especially from the people who say they like them in game, personally I'm not great at including traps in my game as I find them very difficult to come up with also doesn't help that the other DM in my group is quite good at them so please post some if you have them

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Puzzle #1

You are in front of a locked door/chest/else, and you need to select the correct token/key to open it. Using the wrong one may trigger some trap or other nasty consequence.

You are presented with 12 keys, and the instructions (from an inscription, diary, whatever... could also be presented in a semi-riddle form) tell you that the right token is the one that weights slightly differently, but you don't know if it's heavier or lighter than the others.

You have a scale with 2 dishes, so you can only perform comparative weighting, and you can only perform 3 measurements.

Puzzle #2

"Once there were 5 orc pirates with a 1000 gp treasure to share. Starting from the lowest-ranked pirate, each of them could make a proposal about how to share the treasure. If the proposal was accepted by the majority, the treasure would be shared accordingly. If the proposal was rejected, the proponent would walk the plank, and the next pirate would make his proposal. They were all very smart, and greed was always their main motivation. Their second favorite thing beside treasure, was to see someone walk the plank.

I was once the lowest-ranked pirate of that bunch, and here I am still alive... If you want to unlock the door/chest/else, put on this 5 pedestals the 5 amounts of gp I proposed on that day."