Mike Mearls responds: Any chance we’ll see a 5e incarnation of the Warden?

MechaTarrasque · Mar 7, 2018

Mike Mearls responds: Any chance we’ll see a 5e incarnation of the Warden?

At https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/07/any-chance-well-see-a-5e-incarnation-of-the-warden/, Mike Mearls was asked "Hey Mike, any chance we'll see a 5E incarnation of the Warden? I loved that class so much in 4E, and I'm eager to see it come back!", and he responded:

"It was one of my favorite classes! Depending on how the druid of spores goes, we might see about subclasses that mess with druid shapechange or barbarian rage; easiest match mechanics wise for warden subclass."

The warden was my favorite 4e melee class (not the least of which because I mined the "forms of" powers for gimmicks for guardinels, pre-4e eladrin, and a "one with Mt. Celestia" version of the pre-4e archons that I was particularly proud of), so I hope this comes about (he mentioned on a different sequence that he wanted to do something with primal spirits, and this seems a good candidate for that).

Satyrn · Mar 7, 2018

Hey, does your table do third party stuff? I know of a faithful update of the Warden.

Edit - and a link

MechaTarrasque · Mar 7, 2018

Satyrn said:
Hey, does your table do third party stuff? I know of a faithful update of the Warden.

Edit - and a link

Thank you. I will definitely check it out tonight or tomorrow night.

cbwjm · Mar 7, 2018

I hadn't actually considered using the barbarian. I built a warden subclass for the druid, wasn't 100% happy with it but I updated it a little after seeing the spore druid and using the mechanics in that for the warden forms. I should go back and have another look at it.

MechaTarrasque · Mar 7, 2018

cbwjm said:
I hadn't actually considered using the barbarian. I built a warden subclass for the druid, wasn't 100% happy with it but I updated it a little after seeing the spore druid and using the mechanics in that for the warden forms. I should go back and have another look at it.

I wonder if the barbarian warden's rage replacement would involve actual transformation (although the 4e wardens felt more like hybrid forms then full transformations). I am not sure what that would mean mechanically. It seems like the "werewolf style" barbarian notion comes up periodically (and I am for that in principle), but I would like to see details to see how a claw attack will make up for not using a big ax. A quasi-elemental or part tree version might be more mechanically feasible....

cbwjm · Mar 7, 2018

MechaTarrasque said:
I wonder if the barbarian warden's rage replacement would involve actual transformation (although the 4e wardens felt more like hybrid forms then full transformations). I am not sure what that would mean mechanically. It seems like the "werewolf style" barbarian notion comes up periodically (and I am for that in principle), but I would like to see details to see how a claw attack will make up for not using a big ax. A quasi-elemental or part tree version might be more mechanically feasible....

Oddly enough, I added a subclass to my ideas document called the Abomination which is a transformation based subclass for the barbarian inspired by the class from darkest dungeons. Still just a name at the moment though, haven't done any work on it yet.

MechaTarrasque · Mar 8, 2018

cbwjm said:
Oddly enough, I added a subclass to my ideas document called the Abomination which is a transformation based subclass for the barbarian inspired by the class from darkest dungeons. Still just a name at the moment though, haven't done any work on it yet.

On occasion, I putz around with a demon rage barbarian (to simulate possession) that would get some kind of demon or demon lord-related transformation at level 14, but it has never quite clicked for me. An aberration or GOO-related madness barbarian would be cool too.

Looking at what the devs would do with a hybrid form, assuming that is what the warden would entail, would be interesting.

Tony Vargas · Mar 8, 2018

The oath of ancients paladin ticks the box, thematically, it's just casting the same spells as those god-fearing paladins and not transforming....

A half-caster warrior - one that is, to the Druid, what the paladin is to the cleric - would represent the appropriate design space....

...'hybrid forms' would fit that neatly, too - and just as well, fully transforming into 'mountains thunder' would have it's downsides....

gyor · Mar 8, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
The oath of ancients paladin ticks the bus, thematically, it's just casting the same spells as those gid-fearing paladin and not transforming....

A half-caster warrior, to the Druid what the paladin is to the cleric, would represent the appropriate design space....

...'hybrid forms' would fit that neatly, too - and just as well, fully transforming into 'mountains thunder' would have it's downsides....

We have that with the Ranger, we even have a spell, Guardian of Nature, that grants access to hybrid forms, one plant and one beast with XGTE.

One cool thing is that it targets self so at high enough level it can be shared with a beast companion. Beast also works well with horde breaking attacks of the Hunter.

MechaTarrasque · Mar 8, 2018

I had another thought on the barbarian. It isn't my favorite idea (I like the hybrid thing a lot more), but I suppose you could have a variant of Path of the Ancestral Guardian, where primal spirits hang around the barbarian, but instead of being defensive like the ancestral guardian, maybe they could attack all the enemies that are just outside of your reach (say from 5-10 feet normally), with the type of damage (and any special effects the attacks produce [special effects would start at level 6]) being a product of the sub-subclass: the tree warden spirits would do bludgeoning damage and entangle the enemies, the wild warden spirits could do slashing or piercing damage and frighten the enemies, etc.

So the name might be Path of the Warden, but in effect it is Path of the Horde Breaker (thanks [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION], I wouldn't have thought of this without your last post).

Mike Mearls responds: Any chance we’ll see a 5e incarnation of the Warden?

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