Thanks all. This is exactly the sort of feedback I need.
I read up on bladesinger. It is restrcited to one hand weapons. It doesn't get a fighting style (about a 20% damage increase for one handed weapons). It can't just dump int as its ac and concentration depends on that.
While to the untrained eye yours my look almost in line with that subclass, these few things that sound so minor make a huge difference!
Opening up the weapons doesn't seem like an issue to me. You can choose to use a two-hander for more damage, but then you'll take a 2 point hit to AC, which is a pretty big deal in 5e.
The additional damage from Fighting Style is working as intended. The primary thing warrior-mage gets in exchange for everything else Bladesinger
is better damage. It's about the only way they are superior to Bladesinger. I would include better staying power as a secondary category in which they are better, but once Bladesinger gets Song of Defense that isn't true anymore, and Bladesinger's higher AC makes is debatable whether it's true at lower levels.
The Intelligence dumping though reminds me of something I was thinking of in the design phase, but apparently forgot to put in the write up. I'm making them take Int 13 and Str or Dex of 13 (the same as a fighter/wizard standard multiclass) to qualify for the class. Yes, it totally breaks 5e convention and precedent (as does not having a subclass), which I very much dislike doing, but once I decided to try a new class, I decided I'm all in and will make such choices if needed to get a balanced solution.
For me, the line in the sand is that the war mage must not get Extra Attack 3. You could give him any or all of the other things you mentioned and my powergamer instincts would not trigger; but if you give him even a couple of those things and also Extra Attack 3, then he looks clearly better than the Bladesinger, as well as better in most ways than the Eldritch Knight.
I'm glad this is the big issue, because it isn't an essential part of the class design. I threw it in for more a fightery feel, thinking it wasn't going to have much effect on damage output (perhaps I was wrong). How does this alternative feel?
Attack Surge
When you reach 20th level, you can push your attack speed beyond your normal limits for a moment. When you take the Attack action on your turn you can attack three times.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.
(I realize that the Bladesinger and the Eldritch Knight both have better AC; "clearly better" is an intuitive value judgment about the overall package, not a statement about dominance at every point.)
True, I'm making a subjective judgment on it. There are three reason it looks like a big deal to me. It is +2 to +5 depending on level, which seems like a pretty big deal in 5e. This is even more so because it is generally transitioning over that point that feels like mediocre AC (up to about 17) into what seems more like good (18-20) or great (21+) AC. Maybe I'm off on those estimates, I don't know. The final element is that it saves Bladesinger spell slots. Either class can use
shield for an AC boost, but Bladesinger will need to use it less often.
I think the issue that you’re running into here isn’t a math one. It’s a system issue. The Core rules have walled off third and fourth attacks for Fighters. Breaking that assumption before WotC does it will create a knee-jerk response of unbalanced (whether or not the math supports it). You’ll see the same response to any homebrew that allows for multiple concentration spells. Personally, if I were you, I would look into impacting their damage output differently perhaps with something similar to the Cleric’s Divine Strike ability (flavored as the Fighter-Mage channeling magic through their weapons) and forego extra attacks entirely. That would widen the gap between this class and the Eldritch Knight/Valor Bard. You’re already getting a lot of flexibility by having full access to the Wizard spell list (like Haste). Giving up the flexibility of a second or third attack while maintaining DPR might be a good solution to thread the needle here.
Fair enough. The third attack isn't actually intended to improve damage any (
green-flame blade with War Magic is almost always better or equivalent, unless using Great Weapon Master or ranged combat with Sharpshooter--and I nerf both of those feats so they aren't a problem)--or some other significant damage add), so I'm willing to just ditch and it and perhaps use that new feature I described above for flavor. I do want to keep the two attacks, because it feels more appropriate, but Fighting Style and War Magic give them the right amount of damage as I see it, so I wouldn't want to add anything else on top of those.
Spitballing here without any real math behind me, but I wonder if you could craft a feature that either boosted the cantrip or the weapon attack portion of War Magic instead of just taking the improved feature as is. I have not run any numbers, but I would look for opportunities to make this class feel more like its own expression of the concept than just meshing existing features (which, to be fair, is what you stated that you wanted to do so grain of salt and all that). Maybe expanding a single target to two targets or just a damage increase (add +Int to damage or similar). Just an idea for you to consider.
Improved War Magic isn't intended to increase damage, it's to keep them casting and swinging, like a Valor Bard or Eldritch Knight--and as a dedicated warrior-mage hybrid, they really ought to be able to do that as well as the other classes.
[/quote]This is just me, but I don’t know why this needs to be nerfed. Being able to reroll one failed Str or Wis save per long rest and having to take the roll does not strike me as game breaking. I’m not great at breaking the game though so maybe someone sees something I don’t. It’s already limited from the Fighter ability (Indomitable) in type (fighters can pick any save) and amount (fighters get more saves). I don’t think you need to split up Str and Wis. [/quote]
It's just sort of an intuitive feeling that Indomitable Spirit all at once might be pushing it. If others don't feel that way I would be fine with leaving it as it, but right now my thoughts are splitting it up to Wisdom only at 10th level, and expanding it to Strength at 18th level (later than I'd like, but the best available level on the chart).
I’m not sure what the concern is for Grim Harvest. At best, you’re getting back 9 HP if you kill someone with a 9th level Necromancy spell (which may not even exist in the game yet). Again, I’m not great at seeing broken combos, but I can’t imagine that breaking anything. Maybe your concern is that it’s not strong enough? If you really want to differentiate it and possibly let it add more HP more in line with the original feature, consider letting it grant temporary HP instead of actual HP. Since temporary HP don’t stack, the fighter-mage couldn’t really heal himself effectively. He would just be creating a small buffer.
I was just iffy on it not being quite strong enough. I think I'll probably say it's 1 hit point per level regardless of the spell's school. I'm kind of wanting to change Sculpt Spells too. Only 1 creature seems a huge nerf from the original (I want a significant nerf for these, but perhaps not that much). I'm not sure what to do with it though. I'm considering perhaps half level (minimum 0), but that doesn't feel exactly right. The thing is, that first creature is really the most important one, so it's worth more than the additional creatures.
There are a few things that I would look into that might be beyond your stated scope of design.
I would look at stealing from the War Caster feat for class abilities. A lot of people don’t like using feats for homebrew abilities, but a Fighter-Mage that cannot innately use a sword and shield while casting spells feels like it misses the mark to me. Perhaps something that lets you use your weapon as a spell focus as well? You could limit it to one weapon that you are bonded to, but forego the Eldritch Knight perks (summoning, no disarming, and more than one weapon).
It's an AC balance thing. The way I run casting with a shield (without the feat) is that you can transfer your weapon to your shield hand and back again after casting as your free item interaction. I do this because RAW you can just drop your weapon for free, and then pick it up as your free item interaction, so you gain nothing in the action economy from this minor house rule/interpretation (it could mean the difference between dropping it off the edge of a rope bridge though). That's assuming a spell component pouch. If you want to use an arcane focus with a shield, it gets a bit more complicated, since I consider that those have to be drawn/sheathed just like a weapon. You can still theoretically do most of what you could without it, but you are going to end up ending some of your turns without a weapon in your hand, and other little complications can come up. If you really want to have the greatest freedom to cast spells with somatic or material components all the time, forgoing the shield is an option worth considering to avoid such potential complications that can be an issue at times.
I do like the idea of a weapon as an arcane focus, but since neither Eldritch Knight or Wizard gets anything like that, I'm going to steer clear of it. If you look at the class features, they don't actually get anything that isn't from one of those classes (or a nerfed version of one of them), which is by design. When I get it properly balanced and write it up, the lore is going to explain how they train under three masters: a fighter, a wizard, and another warrior-mage.
Taking away Ritual Caster could be helpful as balance.
I've thought of this more than once, but I can't find a way to do it that doesn't feel wrong. As an Intelligence based wizard-trained full-caster, they really should have ritual caster. A nerfed version from the wizard might be ideal. However, there are really only two versions of Ritual Caster. The wizard's version which doesn't require preparation, and can't benefit from it RAW, but does require access to the spell book. (Technically, RAW the spell just has to be in your book, it doesn't say you need to have the book with you, but my guess is that the intention is for you to actually have the book there and use it.) Switching it to the preparation version of clerics and druids won't work since that's a capability wizards don't have. They need a nerfed version of the wizard style Ritual Casting, and unless I interpret the wizard kind as actually being able to use preparation as an alternative to having their book present, I have come up blank on options for that, so I'm just going to stick with standard wizard ritual casting unless I can think of some other alternative. Of course, in reality the better version of Ritual Casting is only worth about half a feat or less--since a feat will give wizard's Ritual Casting, and will give it to someone who can't even cast spells normally.
However, I did want to nerf something. Earlier in the design I had intended to start them with less than 6 known spells. Then I realized that that number was not arbitrary. With rolled stats, a 1st level character (gnome) could have the ability to prepare 6 spells, which I assume is why they set it there, and incentive enough not to reduce it.
Instead, I came up with a small nerf that enforces the flavor of Arcane Specialization. Two of the spells in their book at 1st level have to be from the same school, and that's the school whose ability they will get with Arcane Specialization.
Hope some of that is helpful. Good luck with it!
Yes it is, thanks.
Perhaps, the finesse property works best as a racial feature.
• High Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the longsword and the longbow. You can treat the longsword as having the finesse property.
• Wood Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the spear and the longbow. You can treat the spear as having the finesse property.
• Drow Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the rapier, the shortsword, and the hand crossbow.
While I wouldn't want to add it into the class, something like this for elves is a decent idea. I'd probably just allow elves to use Dexterity with longswords when wielded in one hand as part of their weapon training feature. This would prevent unintended interactions with the finesse property (WoTC follows that precedent in places like the monk's martial arts), and prevent a d10 finesse weapon.
Good thoughts everyone.
