E
Elderbrain
Guest
That helps some. I see terms like BX, BEMCI, RC, and Moldvay and don't know what they are abbreviations for or which products go with which terms.
Help for someone clueless about D&D before AD&D 1st Edition?
GreyLord
Legend
Ah, that's relatively simple. Keep in mind this is largely off the top of my head. I actually have all these sets downstairs, but I'm not really wanting to walk down there and make sure I'm remembering correctly right now, but I think it's correct, at least as far as my failing memory can go.
OD&D
This is the original game. Many refer today to it as the 3 original books. In truth, there were three little books originally. They were about 6-8 inches tall and brown/tan in coloration. These started the original trend. The abbreviation stands for Original Dungeons and Dragons. At the time, it was only known as Dungeons and Dragons. The first time I think one sees it called Original Dungeons and Dragons is on the back of the Holmes Rulebooks (more on Holmes later).
D&D did not stay with those 3 books for long. Supplements came out (Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, Gods, Demi-Gods, & heroes). There was even a miniature wargame rules for it called Swords and Spells. You also included many various articles and other items. These added other classes such as the Ranger, the Paladin, the Thief, the Assassin, the Monk, (and Many others). In a short while, there were so many rules out there that some felt it was time to bring it all together into something cohesive.
Welcome to the first thoughts of AD&D...
Holmes or Holmes Basic D&D
Originally when Holmes approached Gygax and co and wanted to put together this thing for beginning players, he had this idea of something which eventually became what we know as a Basic D&D set. His set was the beginning of something unique and interesting.
He tried to encapsulate OD&D in an easy to learn set of rules. It had several races and several classes which you could be, but it kept it simple. OD&D by this point had expanded greatly with articles and supplments. Holmes cut this down until he had four races in his set, the Human, the Elf, the Dwarf, and the Halfling. In addition, you only had four classes you could be. The fighter, the Cleric, the Thief, and the Magic-User. He chose to follow the Greyhawk supplement (which is what everyone basically was using at that time anyways, and the heritage that AD&D was following in it's rules conglomeration) so it used that system, BUT the damage that characters did was based more on the original three booklets and thus it was d6 damage for characters (monsters had variable damage).
Characters could only get up to level 3 and that was the extent of it's XP tables. Players could extend these if they wanted, but the extent supported was level 3. Humans could choose to be any of the four classes. Dwarves and Halflings had to choose between being a Fighter or a Thief, and Elves were all Fighter/Magic-users (except for ONE copy of Holmes I have which have puzzled many...in that version I have it says Elves have a choice between being a Fighter OR a Magic-user and can switch between one or the other at will).
It was in some ways intended to be an introductory set for AD&D according to some, and it could have been written for it, but before all the nuances of AD&D were known. Thus, it is in many ways very similar to OD&D and it's supplements, but at the same time has a dash of AD&D...and some parts of it are entirely it's OWN thing.
This was the first set called a Basic D&D set. It was advertised as the Dungeons and Dragons Complete Basic Game Set. This started the tradition of the Basic D&D set.
B/X and Moldvay
A few years later a new version that was easier to use and had a clearer heritage was sought in regards to a game set that had the name Basic D&D on it. My set says it is from 1981, but has a forward written by a guy called Tom Moldvay dated 3 Dec. 1980. Moldvay was tasked with putting together a NEW Basic D&D set. Some of this was due to people expecting that there was or should be a continuation from Holmes Basic to something more Advanced (heh...see what I did there...ala...Advanced Dungeons and Dragons).
Instead of making it something that introduced people to AD&D, it stuck with more the idea that it was a continuation of Holmes, but also a continuation of the original ideas of Dungeons and Dragons (OD&D discussed above). Hence, you have a second branch off from the Original D&D starting. There were some major changes here that differentiated it from both Holmes and AD&D. For starters, it kept the four classes and races of Holmes, but if you were a Dwarf, Elf, or Halfling you no longer got to choose your class. Instead, each race BECAME their own class. Dwarfs resembled fighters mostly because that's what they were supposed to represent....a Dwarf Fighter character. Elves resembled Fighter/Magic-users because that's what they were supposed to represent. And Halflings...I don't know what he was thinking of with halflings except that they were some sort of mix between a Fighter and a Thief.
All the Races were ALSO their own class though, so a Dwarf was a Dwarf, and Elf was an Elf, and a Halfling was a Halfling. d6 damage was the default damage still, but it had the option to use variable weapon damage if people so desired. Once again the game for this basic rule set was limited to levels 1-3.
HOWEVER...it did NOT end here. Shortly thereafter, they did with Moldvay Basic what had not been done with Holmes Basic. They brought up an Expert Set. This was edited by Cook and extended the rules found in the Basic Set from levels 4-14. The rules supported up to level 14...BUT...
The Expert book itself stated that Wizards, Figthers, Clerics and Thieves could actually get up to 36th level (but there were nor rules for how to get there exactly...though one could extrapolate the XP tables, but there was no support for Clerical spells past 5th level or Magic User spells past 6th level (though one could argue this was akin to the original 3 books of D&D where M-U spells only went up to 6th level...higher level spells came later in other supplements if I recall right).
Elves were limited to 10th level, Dwarves were limited to 12th level, and Halflings to 8th level.
Thus the abbreviation of Moldvay refers automatically also to B/X. B/X stands for B= Basic and X=Expert...hence the Term B/X. It is also known as Moldvay's Basic...or Cooks Expert...or Moldvay Cook...etc.
BECMI
In Tom Moldvay's introductory words to the Basic set of B/X there is a unique name mentioned there. He gives a special point out and thanks to Harold Johnson (yeah...let's hear it for Harold...everyone shout for joy and say what an awesome and terrific guy he is) and Frank Mentzer (who we will find out was even GREATER and had a HUGE impact).
A few years after B/X came out, once again they decided to rewrite Basic...but this time the entire line got planned out and implemented with ONE man in charge. This man was named...Frank Mentzer. He solidified that this line which was just called Dungeons and Dragons (no AD&D) was it's OWN game...it's OWN line of D&D separate from and different from AD&D. He was tasked to do this under the auspices of Gary Gygax (of whom he was fast friends and one of the few supporters that went with Gygax through thick and thin. I would consider Mentzer perhaps one of the greatest friends Gygax had in the business, and perhaps the closest to him in though to some degree in regards to gaming overall).
Mentzer put together a Basic set (B=Basic) which basically did much of what the B/X version did. However, it also made it the default that weapons did variable damage. His set was put together with far more accessibility for players to understand with an introductory single player adventure, and an easy to understand language with graduated players into what the game was about and how the rules worked.
This basic set came in a Red Box. Now, the original B/X Basic book was also red...but when people refer to the Red Box They normally are referring to Mentzer's version of the Red Box. This is perhaps the best selling D&D product ever made. Huge numbers of people got their start on this boxed set. It had a Warrior with a Viking type helmet on the front battling a Red Dragon.
The Expert set followed much of what the original Expert did with some changes. This Expert set is the E in BECMI. this set was blue.
The next set for levels 15-25 was known as the Companion set. (thus the C=Companion). It was a Green set and added a LOT of different things to the game. It had things such as rules for armies and warfare, and new equipment such as the Bastard Sword, Full Plate...and other things.
Finally came the ultimate set which was Black known as the Master Set. (Master = M). This took players from level 26-36. Within these sets were also new rules for weapon skills and mastery and other more complicated ideas that gamers could add to their game.
The final set was called the Immortals Set. (hence I=Immortals). This was a Gold box set and was completely different from what came before. Once players reached level 36 in the Master set...if they went on further they MIGHT become Immortals...which is basically BECMI's version of Deities and Demigods. The immortal set included a different way of advancing beyond that of the class/race system where different levels of Immortals were ranked in power and ability.
These five sets that defined Dungeons and Dragons became known by the abbreviation of the Box sets or BECMI (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortals).
RC
A while later in the 90s a new approach was taken to Mentzer's BECMI. They conglomerated almost all of it into ONE rulebook. This rulebook did not include everything from BECMI, but it included a LOT of BECM. It basically took the rules from the first four box sets (so Basic, Expert, Companion, and Master) and put them into a new book called the Rules Cyclopedia.
(Rules Cyclopedia = RC).
The Rules Cyclopedia is considered by some the greatest rulebook ever made, as it is perhaps the most complete D&D game ever found in one, concise...rulebook.
Hope that explains the different abbreviations you asked about (probably in more detail than you desired) and what they each stand for and why.
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None of these is a pre-AD&D game. Like AD&D, they are attempts to present a game that is derived from, but in some respects cleaner than and better presented than, original D&D + supplements.
B/X refers to Moldvay Basic (c 1981, a red booklet written by Tom Moldvay) and Cook/Marsh Expert (a blue booklet written by David Cook and Steve Marsh). Both booklets shipped as boxed sets that also contained a module (in my case, Keep on the Borderlands in Basic and The Isle of Dread in Expert) and dice.
Basic had rules for levels 1-3, Expert for leves 4-14. Dwarf, Elf and Halfling are classes (with maximum levels of 12, 10 and 8 respectively); humans can be fighters, thieves (who can use any weapon), clerics, or magic-users. Both have monster sections, and magic item sections. The magic items in Basic are lower-powered than in Expert. Maximum "+" for swords and armour is +3 in Expert. Maximum spell level is 6 for MUs (and so the best attack spells are Disintegrate and Death Spell) and 5 for clerics (so Raise Dead is the most dramatic effect possible; and there is no Flame Strike spell).
The basic feel of B/X is like AD&D but without the subclasses (no druids, paladins, rangers, illusionists, assassins, monks, bards), with fewer spells in the spell lists, and with significantly cleaner rules (and Moldvay Basic is stronger in this last respect than is Expert). There are a number of monsters in B/X that are not found in the MM or MMII for AD&D eg living statues, various giant insects, giant ferrets, a variety of golems, etc.
The Expert book promised a Companion set to follow, which would include rules for levels 15 to 36. It never happened.
B/X has no cosmology by default, but the Expert set introduces The Grand Duchy of Karameikos as a sample campaign area, and there is a map in The Isle of Dread that expands on that, adding more lands around the Grand Duchy. This was eventually labelled the "Known World", and later Mystara. Some other modules were set in these lands (eg X2 Castle Amber refers to Glantri, which appears on the Isle of Dread map), and the Gazetteer series elaborated on this campaign setting.
BECMI is a reboot of B/X, with Frank Mentzer as the lead designer. It is an acronym for Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal sets. Basic and Expert remained red and (darkish) blue; I think Companion was light blue; Master was black; and Immortal was, I think, a fawny-brown. The levels for Basic and Expert were as in B/X. Companion went from 15 to 20-something, and then Master up to 36. I don't own these, but besides some toughter monsters for higher level PCs, they also add some mechanical bells and whistles not found in B/X, and also stretch out some of the numbers (eg saving throw numbers; thief ability chances) to make the 36 level range work.
Immortals is about playing post-36th level godlings. I don't know much about it, but I think it introduced a whole lot of new mechanics for dealing with this sort of stuff. The Immortals rules (and maybe also the Master rules?) introduced a default cosmology which resembles in some respects but is not identical to the one found in Appendix IV of the AD&D PHB.
RC is Rules Compendium. This is a one-volume compilation of BECM, but no I. I have this, but because I don't have the earlier books I don't know if it adds or changes anything. It has rules for levels 1-36, which are similar but not identical to B/X. The spell lists go to level 9 for MUs and level 7 for clerics (like AD&D). There are more spells than in B/X, though not as many as AD&D and some of the spells (eg Create spells, if I'm remembering right) are not found in AD&D. There are monsters in this book that are not found in B/X, and not all of those new monsters are in AD&D either.
I know a lot of people swear by RC. Personally I think B/X is cleaner - the extra rules in RC seem a bit fiddly to me (like the option for a high level fighter to become a paladin) and I'm not 100% sure what they add to AD&D. And thieves in RC look even weaker than thieves in B/X, who on balance are probably weaker than thieves in AD&D despite having a better weapon selection.
Personally, I would say the cleanest ever version of classic (ie pre-2nd ed AD&D) D&D is Moldvay Basic.
Particle_Man
Explorer
I think some old gods and monsters didn't make it into newer works because of the threats of lawsuits so they were renamed. So originally there were Ents and Hobbits and Balrogs but these quickly became Treants and Halflings and Balors. And the first Dieties and Demigods, at least had gods from pantheons that were later dropped (I think some of the Gods and heroes of Elric of Melnibone, and Lovecraft's Cthulhu, and maybe Lankmar?), although later Cthulhu made a comeback in d20 (and a close cousin in Pathfinder) but I am not sure about earlier Gods books.
Particle_Man
Explorer
I remember in an expansion for BECMI (about the fairies, fair folk etc.) they described the immortals cosmology a bit and talked about a previous cycle of the universe that fairies are holdovers from. So in this cycle of the universe Earth, Air, Water an Fire are being threatened by Entropy, that tries to destroy everything. In the last cycle, I think things were reversed somehow, and Anti-Entropy was trying to unite everything, so was kinda the "good guys" and the fairies are from the anti-entropy last cycle.
Oh, you can see some cool things in Chainmail that made it to AD&D in another form. Like how Knights have very rigid codes about who they attack first, second, etc., which gets reflected in the Cavalier class in 1st ed AD&D in the supplement Unearthed Arcana.
Oh, you can see some cool things in Chainmail that made it to AD&D in another form. Like how Knights have very rigid codes about who they attack first, second, etc., which gets reflected in the Cavalier class in 1st ed AD&D in the supplement Unearthed Arcana.
It's probably worth mentioning that Wrath of the Immortals was released right after Rules Cyclopedia. It replaced the rules for Immortal play and was more player friendly. It gave guidelines on how to create and play Immortals either as PC's or NPCs.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Cthulhu's early absence and relatively recent comeback is, I believe, largely due to the statute of limitations having run out on Lovecraft's copyrights during the intervening time.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
I seem to recall [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] at one time had a pretty impressive timeline chart showing what was released when through all of D&D's history up to that time, but I'm not sure where he's hidden it or even if it's still on this site.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Look under the "Resources" menu:
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1646-TSR-WotC-Paizo-A-Comparative-History
From TSR to WotC: A History of D&D
Links, Articles, Posts & Essays
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?333655-From-TSR-to-WotC-A-History-of-D-amp-D
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Good stuff! One thing that I realize is that I really didn't understand the difference and just mixed rules and monsters from various editions in the 80s.
The other thing I realize is that I can't for the life of me remember which was my first.
I'm almost positive that it was the Moldvay edition with the Earl Otus cover, but the Mentzer edition with the Elmore cover is also very nostalgic and familiar. But I *think* that I remember seeing the new box in stores and loving the art, but had already bought the AD&D books.
I know for a fact that my set had the lighter blue dice that I needed to fill in the number with a white crayon that was provided. Does that narrow it down?
Okay, I just looked it up on the excellent Acaeum site (https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html) and I'm certain I started with the Moldvay version.
The dice don't help as the Mentzer edition could come with either uncolored or colored dice.
BUT, the Mentzer edition did NOT come with the Keep on the Borderlands adventure and I am 100% certain that my first boxed set did as THAT is how I learned to play the game. And for a while, that WAS the game. I just kept leading people through those Caves of Chaos until I could get my parents to take me to a store where I could buy graph paper.
I don't know why the Mentzer cover is so familiar. Again, I think it is from seeing it on the shelves and maybe friends had it. I don't *think* that I owned a copy.
One thing I regret is that I traded all my old D&D and all other gaming stuff the summer after my freshman year in college. Not that any of it would be worth anything, but it would be nice to page through the old books and modules that I actually owned and played as a kid. All that is left is a dog chewed d10 with edges rounded from use, the white crayon filling the numbers having lasted longer than the cheap plastic used to make the dice.
The other thing I realize is that I can't for the life of me remember which was my first.
I'm almost positive that it was the Moldvay edition with the Earl Otus cover, but the Mentzer edition with the Elmore cover is also very nostalgic and familiar. But I *think* that I remember seeing the new box in stores and loving the art, but had already bought the AD&D books.
I know for a fact that my set had the lighter blue dice that I needed to fill in the number with a white crayon that was provided. Does that narrow it down?
Okay, I just looked it up on the excellent Acaeum site (https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html) and I'm certain I started with the Moldvay version.
The dice don't help as the Mentzer edition could come with either uncolored or colored dice.
BUT, the Mentzer edition did NOT come with the Keep on the Borderlands adventure and I am 100% certain that my first boxed set did as THAT is how I learned to play the game. And for a while, that WAS the game. I just kept leading people through those Caves of Chaos until I could get my parents to take me to a store where I could buy graph paper.
I don't know why the Mentzer cover is so familiar. Again, I think it is from seeing it on the shelves and maybe friends had it. I don't *think* that I owned a copy.
One thing I regret is that I traded all my old D&D and all other gaming stuff the summer after my freshman year in college. Not that any of it would be worth anything, but it would be nice to page through the old books and modules that I actually owned and played as a kid. All that is left is a dog chewed d10 with edges rounded from use, the white crayon filling the numbers having lasted longer than the cheap plastic used to make the dice.
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