[OT] did i overreact?

Hey yall,

I just wanted to write about my last adv and ask "did i overreact?" yes/ no

if yes, what should I have done
if no, why not?

Here we go:

Two adv ago, we wer fighting a spell caster. I asked what she looked like and the DM said she is a very old woman. After trying hard as heck to kill her (and not succeeding) I cast antimagic field on myself and had the group huddle around me as we ran away.

The DM later said that she was an undead and all I had to do was cast mass heal on her (or anything like that) which bothered me a lil cause when i asked what she looked like, he said nothing about rotting, smelly, skin falling off... or anything which gave me the impression of undead. besides, I think he is just slapping the undead template on everything just to take the effectiveness of the rogue out of play.

So we get back to base camp and found that everyone was abandoning it cause the opposing army is invading (we failed to hold them at the pass). The general has a letter he wants to give to the king, which he sends a druid escort (NPC turned PC- replaced ftr) to help us along the way. I take a piece of the dead rogue back to my temple to ressurect him, splitting from the sorc and fighter. I told them to meet me at the temple of St Cuthbert. the fighter dies soon after.

They get hit along the way and the Druid gets captured (taking him out of the game) the sorc gets to the king who tells him to get me clr and rog and come back to the castle (which will soon be under seige)

We get there the next day and a guard stips us at the door. He tells us that we will have to leave all weapons at the door. I refused. (ooc- I am a lvl 18 clr with a +5/ spell storing mace and the rog has a +4/frost MC longbow). He refused also. They would not let us pass, and would not deliver the message that we have come.

After bickering with them for abotu 1/2 hr, I stupidly decide to push my way through to see the king. After the initial charge, I decide to pull back out to outside the palace gates and wait for the king. He finally comes out and asks what happened. I tell him, but he does not listen. He says,"surrender your weapon."

Feeling like this is going nowhere, I tell him that i will just return to my temple. And if you want to hire me- show me a lil more respect and my price of service increased ten folds...

DM says, make a will save. I rolled a 32, and he says I am fine. He orders me to apologise. i apologised to him for entering his castle with a weapon. He then tells me to surrender teh weapon. (ooc- the group is getting restless and want to move on...) and so I finally give up my weapon.

He further says, apologise to teh guards. I roll my eyes and apologise to the guards. They walk up to me (4 of them) and each gave me a slap. The king tosses my mace onto the ground and tells me never to show my face around here again.

So, I go the stables, and buy a liht warhorse- and ride backt o my temple- and stay there for teh rest of the game.

End of story...

Now- here is where i ask, "did i overreact?" I am lvl 18 clr which was summoned by a king for some reason unknown to me. Four guards meet me at the door and demand my weapon. I refuse and they slap me. i take it persoanlly and leave and the Dm dings me on exp because I did nothing this game...

Mind you, I dont know what lvl these guards were, but I know they sure as heck are not that high up- may lvl 2 ftr or something, and they have the audacity to clap me.... and teh DM gets surprised when i choose not accept the mission after this.

thanks a bunch

Well, we're hearing one side of this, so it sure sounds like -- from your perspective -- that your character was treated disrespectfully by the king. Then again, perhaps that's part of this particular kingdom's protocol.

I've hard characters in situations where weapons weren't allowed; many times it's just an excuse on the DM's part to change the group dynamic or to make them play out an encounter under a handicap. Generally speaking, that's a horrid method of running a scenario, in my opinion. If there's no solid in-game reason for making the PCs lose their gear, Deus ex Machina methods are feeble.

On the reverse side of things, perhaps the king has a valid reason to wish no one armed near him. There's a chance he's the target of assassins or somesuch and routinely only allows his personal guard to be armed while being near him.

In a long-term game to which I've belonged for almost a decade, travelling in the kingdom with weapons without having a license is a criminal offense. If you're a member of a licensed adventuring company or militia, you are allowed to wear a weapon without a peacebond, but still not in the presence of royalty unless you're a knighted servant of the king.

In this case, it makes sense. The DM doesn't use it as a foil against the PCs, and everyone follows the same rules in-game. In a few circumstances, combat has broken out, and it's fun to watch the fighters scramble with their daggers (tiny weapons are exempt from the rule) and without their plate mail trying to tackle demons.

My character is a monk, so perhaps I haven't felt the press as badly as some of the other characters in this situation.

In the case of your character being slapped by the guards, that sounds completely out of place. The Will save also makes no sense, unless someone was casting a spell at you, in which case you would've known a spell was cast on you and failed.

As for staying in your temple -- that's probably bad form on your part. The DM went to the trouble to create an adventure, and deliberately avoiding it isn't playing nice. In judo, we call that being "bad uke." If your reactions were what your character would do, and not something to avoid the adventure, then it's good roleplaying, as long as you can honestly say to yourself that was the only reason you did it, and not to subconsciously derail the story.

Hope that helps,
Greg

Sodalis,

In my opinion, you over-reacted. I have had my players surrender weapons in the presence of royalty, important personages, etc. Especially during troublesome/war periods. Assassins are EVERYWHERE!

You have every right not to surrender you weapon, but you don't get to see the king. BUT, if you are a subject of the king, it would be in extremely bad taste NOT to surrender you weapon. He might get PO'ed with you.


Just my feelings on it.

Taren Nighteyes

Sodalis said:

...
The DM later said that she was an undead and all I had to do was cast mass heal on her (or anything like that) which bothered me a lil cause when i asked what she looked like, he said nothing about rotting, smelly, skin falling off... or anything which gave me the impression of undead.

Click to expand...

Not all undead decay - vampires, for example, don't. Also, she could have been a relatively "fresh" undead. Or maybe she was using illusion magic...
And mass heal isn't a good idea to use against a single undead since heal will achieve the same effect in this situation.

We get there the next day and a guard ... tells us that we will have to leave all weapons at the door. I refused. ... They would not let us pass, and would not deliver the message that we have come.

... I ... ride backt o my temple- and stay there for teh rest of the game.

Now- here is where i ask, "did i overreact?" I am lvl 18 clr which was summoned by a king for some reason unknown to me. Four guards meet me at the door and demand my weapon. I refuse and they slap me. i take it persoanlly and leave ...

Click to expand...

Question: For what reason did you refuse to leave your weapons at the door?
Anyway, most kings can't risk allowing armed people (except for their own guards, knights, etc., of course) into their presence.

Well, as usual with these sorts of situations, it's often difficult to judge. First and foremost, we don't know all the details. In cases like this, it's often the situation that the person desciribing it will unintentionally leave out information that would be relevant.

That said, a few things stand out:

1) You specifically mentioned that you felt the DM was applying templates for the express purpose of devaluing the rogue in your group. That sounds like you have either a communication problem within the group, or some other problem if you feel the DM is trying to suppress a group dynamic. Difficult for us to judge without more information.

2) You're an 18th-level cleric. An 18th-level cleric. You are potentially a living saint...one of perhaps a handful that your church as walking the Earth. You command the mightiest magics your diety will grant, can speak directly with your diety at will, summon greater planar beings to aid you and bring the dead back to the land of the living. What is the dynamic of your church and the king? The king expecting his commands to be obeyed may not be outrageous, but such treatment from lowly men-at-arms...this seems somewhat odd.

3) Why did you remain at the temple for the remainder? Was it because you, as the player, were angry, or because your character was? Both are potentially legitimate reasons, and both could have been addressed by your DM...but not without your cooperation. How you, as a player, handled this situation could be the difference between a wasted evening and a enjoyable one. It also is dependent on the DM, who sounds like he may want to contain high-level characters, but not be able to 'go with the flow' so to speak, if you go outside his boundaries. Not necessarily a problem, but a trait to be aware of.


4) Things to consider: It is wartime, and polymorph and alter self spells are not hard to come by. The king IS a king, and may have a powerful magic item or even prestige class skill to compel you. By the same token, the appearance of the undead caster could be altered by a simple glamour. How she looked certainly has nothing to do with how she actually might have appeared, or what she was trying to project. A powerful undead spellcaster probably would cast an illusion on herself if she had to walk amongst the living.

5) Finally, those guards don't have to be high-level to outrank you socially. Just ask a druid or barbarian living in the great woods how well they're received at court by a bunch of low-level aristocrats. Food for thought.

Regardless of whether or not the king summoned you to see him, it's expected that requests such as "leave your weapons at the gate" or "no weapons or spell pouches beyond this point" will be met without argument. I think that having the guards slap you was a bit much (and bad form) on the DM's part, but your character was out of line for not handing over your mace. Besides, as you point out, your PC is an 18th level cleric and certainly capable of protecting himself (and dealing a large amount of damage) without the weapon.

In your shoes, I would have been irritated at the unnecessary slapping incident (which seemed directed at you moreso than the character), but aside from that, I think you overreacted by refusing to finish the session. Sorry.

I thought the post was long enough without going into the details about what I was thinking, but I think they would help to see my point:

I was waiting for the rest of my groupt o meet me at my temple. the sorc came and said that a king wish to see us. I come, to find that they wont let me in ubnless i give up my weapon.

i did not for two reasone, 1)he called for our help and should have known that i was coming witha weapon. And he did not mention anything about protocol- just said no weapons allowed. and since he did call me for my aid (at least that is what i got from the summons) he should respect that i have a weapona nd will not give it up.
and 2) i felt that at lvl 18, i should not have to take this much crap from a guard. this is a habit for the DM- making it seem like no matterwhat lvl you are, your presence is the same as a lvl 1 commoner. At lvl 5, peasants on the street would slap up, feling that the town guards would help them if we attacked. at lvl 10, farmers tried to lynch us for setting up camp just outside their village... and so on.

His rationale is, and i disagree, that just because we are walking around in heavy armor with large weapons and such, is not grounds for people to fear us. For all theyknow- we are lvl 1... but rumors spread, fame is passed from town to town... and no one ever gives our group any respect. I have been slapped prolly about ten times already. Each time, I just say- whatever- but as I lvl up, I am growing upset at the fact that a guard, peasant, farmer, or whatever is slapping me, and if i do anything, the powers that be would send bounty hunters after me.

The farmers that tried to lynch us were killed by a wiz (no longer with us) with acid fog. two escaped and told the lords, who sent bounty hunters after us. The entire group died two days later.


Darkness:
as for the undead, he gave no indications as to the fact that she was undead... none. He should have dropped hints or something, cause I would hate to mess up and accidentally heal the poor bastard. The reason i chose mass heal was a higher DC and i dont ned to touch her...

Yes- i chose to go back to my temple to avoid the adv. I felt that if he was gonna do this time and again, i refuse to play.

Before, he would ask for feedback on the avd,a nd his DMing. But after a cuople critical statements, he just got upset and called me a wynee biyatch. Last time, we were walking through a thich brushy forest and the DM said that the rogue can only move at 1/2 speed from the brush- no problem. We find out that an invisible barbarian was hiding behind a tree somewhere. (ooc- he loaded the guy on power crit, rhino hide, scythe, and all the other stuff that doubles the crit str and power- and was a sitting target afterwards- AC 12) he charged through the trees and hit the ftr for 170 pts and smiled and said, "I can't get it above 200" which means that he was doing this for the sake of doing it. At lvl 13, the ftr had 110 hp.

I told him that theer were trees in the way- and since the rogue only moved at 1/2 speed, how could he charge? he said, "all the trees are gone! no more trees..."

What the hell was that?

Oh well- I know the predomominant view on the boards is if you cant play with this DM, find another one. And i have, but the peopl ein teh group are my friends for the last 5 years. And he is a great guy and all- just his DMing is not how I like to play. i have slowly withdrawn from the gaming group and played elsewhere... but still play in this group every now and then. Maybe I should just call it quits.

You goofed up

Not knowing the entire situation...yes, sounds like you overreacted. Also sounds like your DM overreacted. The best thing you could have done was to either give up your weapon or give the message to the guard to deliver.

Assuming everyone had stayed in character, and assuming you were playing a good cleric and the king was a good, feared, or respected ruler, you broke the King's law by forcing entry into his palace armed and without permission. There would have been serious repercussions in any of the campaigns I play in. A king cannot stay in power long if he allows high level characters to walk all over him.

-might does not make right
-with great power, comes great responsibility

Remember those two things when playing high level characters.

Hm. That's complex. The king has all the rights to ask that you leave your weapons at the door. You are a guest, even if he has called for you. He is going to ask for your help, but he is not a beggar. By refusing to leave your weapons, you show that you don't trust him, and that's a major offense.

Then, however, he attempted to use magic on you, a powerful priest and probably a political force to begin with, and that's an even worse offense that, had you been an ambassador from a not-too-friendly foreign country, could have meant the start of a war.

Then, he had you apologise to him, and that's reasonable.

Then, he had you apologise to the guards, and that's again very offensive. Finally, his guards slapped you and he banished you from his presence. That's bad. If the guards weren't explicitly told to slap you but did so as their initiative, and the king didn't punish them for it, it's worse - not as bad as casting a spell on you, but it's close.

Overall, you started it, but this king must not be very good at diplomatics. He reacted extremely badly, tried to use magic on you, and had you humiliated by underlings. And he was seeking help from you.

If I was the DM, your church would give you some words for having been disrespectful to the king, and then demand public apologies from the king, a sizeable compense for the humiliation you suffered, and (possibly, depends on alignment) the heads of the guards on a silver plate. Oh, and there's no way you get the permission to help this tyrant wannabe unless he pulls out some major money for it and promises to lower the taxes for your church for the next century or so.

For the undead thing, well, there are instances where you don't immediately see that one is undead. Having the battle be impossible unless you figure out that she is undead is nasty but legit. If you really had no way of knowing that she was undead - especially if custom-made antidetection spells or items were involved - that's nasty AND unfair. The DM can't assume that you will cast a heal spell on an enemy without apparent reason.

Oops, I missed the bit where you forced your way into the room. This makes you almost on par with him in terms of offensiveness (though he still "wins" because he used magic on you).

At this point, if I was the DM, there are two possibilities.

If yours is a major church, everything above applies, but much less severely.

If yours is a minor church, you immediately get sent to apologise and offer your help for free. If you were anything less than a ultra-high-level priest, you would have been probably exiled. It would have not been fair, but the church can't afford to be on the king's bad side.