Amethyst, for Obsidian - Skill Challenge skill set ups

Here is Amethyst, which I'm working on as a complement to Obsidian. Amethyst deals with setting up skills for your challenges in interesting ways.
Amethyst v 0.0.3

Core Mechanism
Use Obsidian by Salker0, adding the following rules.


Initiative
Players decide the order they want to take turns in at the start of the challenge. They can change that order at the start of each segment.


Primary Skills and their Attributes
Skill attributes help relate skills you choose for the challenge with specific consequences. They can up the ante, link successes with one to boosts on another, and so on.

First, pick the skills
Instead of the one or two skills recommended for basic Obsidian, instead choose 3-7 primary skills for the challenge. It is suggested you do this in your preparation work as DM, but if you like you can involve your players.

Second, tag them with attributes
Give each skill 0-4 attributes off the list. At the start of your challenge, tell players those skills that are not hidden, transitory, or triggered. At the start of each segment, tell players those skills that are transitory or triggered for the segment, unless they are hidden.

Finally, set DCs
Note down the base DC for the challenge, determined by the group level. Next you set DCs for each skill separately; either at the base DC, or up to 3 lower or 5 higher. Do not tell players the set DCs at the start of the challenge!


Counting successes
By default, all skills count successes toward the challenge tally, and then might have other effects depending on the attributes you set for them. The exception are influential skills. These never help the challenge tally, but always have other effects determined by other qualifiers you note down for them.


Skill Attribute List
Suggested set DCs can’t take into account your group and what you want to emphasise for your challenge, so you’ll want to adjust them. The reason they’re included is as a guideline to the predicted value or impact of an attribute. For skills with multiple attributes, consider the single most important attribute and tune the DC from that one.

Beneficial: Base DC+1
When you make a successful check on this skill, an advantageous effect triggers if you get more total successes than failures this segment. The DM designs that effect.

Bribe: Base DC-3
A check on this skill costs gold pieces equal to the challenge base DC x100. If the challenge results in a victory, you recover the gold spent this way. If it results in a partial victory, you recover half the gold instead. Bribe is good to put on a skill that has the gamble attribute, or in some other way valuable to succeed on. It ups the ante!

Central: Base DC
Checks on this skill receive a +2 bonus.

Class: Base DC
You can only make a check on this skill if it’s a class skill for you.

Collaborative: Base DC
A successful check on this skill gives a +2 bonus to the next check with <other skill name>. A failed check on this skill gives -2 penalty to the next check with <other skill name>.

Dangerous: Base DC-1
When you make a check on this skill, a disadvantageous effect triggers if you get more failures than successes on it this segment. The DM designs that effect.

Daring: Base DC
You can choose to make your check on this skill against the set DC+5. If you do and that check is successful, choose a player. You grant that player the ability to roll twice on their next check and take whichever roll pleases them, with a morale bonus equal to your ability modifier for this skill. As DM you can use daring in all sorts of ways, for example replace the standard benefit with something of your own invention. ‘You swing across the chasm on a vine earning not only a success, but revealing your chutzpah to the dragonborn Queen!’

Drudgework: Base DC-2
A successful check on this skill lets you choose a player. That player has a bonus on their next check equal to your ability modifier for this skill.

Fatiguing: Base DC
A failed check on this skill costs you a healing surge.

Gamble: Base DC+2
A successful check on this skill scores two successes toward victory. A failed check erases one success from the challenge tally. Skills that are a gamble never have the influential attribute.

Helpful: Base DC+1
A successful check on this skill decreases the set DC of <other skill name> by 1 for the rest of the challenge.

Hidden: Base DC
This skill is not revealed to players, irrespective of its other attributes. A successful check on <other skill name> reveals it. Hidden skills should often have other attributes, that makes them more fun to find out.

Hindrance: Base DC-1
A failed check on this skill increases the set DC of <other skill name> by 1 for the rest of the challenge.

Influential: As other attributes
A successful check on this skill does not score toward the challenge tally, but has some other effect. Influential skills always have at least one other attribute. Because they don’t add to the success tally, Influential skills should be uncommon and need to have a significantly valuable effect, otherwise your players won’t want to skip the chance to score a success toward victory.

Insightful: Base DC
A successful check on this skill lets you ask your DM one question about the challenge. You can ask about the set DC or attributes of a skill you know or guess is a primary skill for the challenge, or for the name of a skill that is hidden, or something else. Your question can only concern the past and present, not the future.

Locked: Base DC
No checks can be made against this skill until it is unlocked. A successful check on <other skill name> unlocks it. Locked skills should often have other attributes, that makes them more fun to find out.

Once: Base DC
The first successful check on this skill in a segment counts toward victory, any further successful checks are ignored.

One-shot: Base DC
One player can make a check on this skill, once, over the entire challenge.

Required: Base DC
From 1-4 checks are required on this skill per segment. You choose how many before the challenge starts, but never more than the number of players. If the required number of checks are not made, the shortfall is deducted from the challenge tally. Required skills are great to associate with beneficial or dangerous effects, or with costs and sacrifices. Note that the checks need not succeed, to count as made.

Sacrifice: Base DC
A check on this skill costs one of your powers that is available for use. You choose that power. The chosen power becomes unavailable for use until the end of your next combat encounter. After that you can recover it normally. If the challenge results in a victory, you recover the power then instead. If this skill has the class attribute, then the power chosen much be from that class. An option for sacrifice is to give a power bonus on the check equal to half the level of the power sacrificed. If you do, set the base DC higher.

Trained: Base DC
You can only make a check on this skill if you have it trained.

Transitory: Base DC
You can only make a check on this skill in segment <number>.

Triggered: Base DC
You can only make a check on this skill in the segment following that in which the first successful check is made on <other skill name>.

Wounding: Base DC-1
A check on this skill costs you 5 hit points. You can’t recover those hit points until the start of your next combat encounter. After that you can recover them normally. If the challenge results in a victory, you recover those hit points then instead.

Design Notes
Amethyst is primarily designed to extract the properties inherent in the examples in the DMG, and lay those out on an easy pick list; adding a few more that people have thought of since then. It presents you with a toolbox for designing a challenge.
Amethyst is also designed to let players up the stakes for a better chance at rewards.



-vk

Now this is significantly different than the PDF in Stalker0's post, correct?

I think you're going in the right direction by streamlining the Amethyst system so that it's a menu of options to spice up the checks in an Obsidian skill challenge.

I found the feats in the original PDF too complex and hard to judge against the existing feats, so I'm glad to see them trimmed.

[Edit: Oops, I see you were only posting PART of your system, so the feats probably aren't trimmed. I still think your system doesn't need them. Perhaps they could be a separate expansion.]

Given that a main design principle of Obsidian was to make failures less threatening, I was surprised to see failure mentioned so prominently in the primary properties list. I'm not against adding some opportunities for risk or penalities, but at first glance I didn't know what it would mean to add "two failures" to the Obsidian system, which doesn't use failures.

I'd see if you could do away with having separate categories for primary properties and qualifiers. Make them all qualifiers, so that "Influential" means "Does not provide a success on its own, but has some other effect" and "Crucial" (perhaps better called "Gamble") means "If you succeed, score two successes. If you fail, you or another player must skip a check in this challenge."

I'd also consider making the qualifiers apply not to skills but specific actions. So I could use Acrobatics to climb a vine and earn a single success if I make the roll, or I could risk a "Daring" Acrobatics roll in order to swing across a chasm on the vine, earning not only a success but some other bonus.

Presentation-wise, you may want to fix the bullets and change the colour.

I like the idea behind your system a lot and will be using some of the qualifiers to make a challenge for my players.

Yogurt-in-BC said:

Now this is significantly different than the PDF in Stalker0's post, correct?

Click to expand...

Completely correct. The first feedback on the pdf highlighted that the skill stuff looked fun, but the powers unnecessary. That made me reflect on what I want with challenges as a DM, and I realised that had nothing to do with creating a parallel to the existing and already well featured powers system for combat. It was all to do with having a good toolbox for supporting skill challenges.

Yogurt-in-BC said:

I think you're going in the right direction by streamlining the Amethyst system so that it's a menu of options to spice up the checks in an Obsidian skill challenge.

Click to expand...

Thank you. That is Amethyst's exact intention. Gather everyone's ideas together into a toolbox of consistent, well conceived attributes to weave together skills for challenges.

Yogurt-in-BC said:

I found the feats in the original PDF too complex and hard to judge against the existing feats, so I'm glad to see them trimmed.

[Edit: Oops, I see you were only posting PART of your system, so the feats probably aren't trimmed. I still think your system doesn't need them. Perhaps they could be a separate expansion.]

Click to expand...

No, you're right. They're gone. I doubt they'll reappear.

Yogurt-in-BC said:

Given that a main design principle of Obsidian was to make failures less threatening, I was surprised to see failure mentioned so prominently in the primary properties list.

Click to expand...

My error. I was pulling notes from work on the existing skill system and porting those to Obsidian, and I just plain forgot to remove scoring failures. They'll be gone next version.

Yogurt-in-BC said:

I'd see if you could do away with having separate categories for primary properties and qualifiers. Make them all qualifiers, so that "Influential" means "Does not provide a success on its own, but has some other effect" and "Crucial" (perhaps better called "Gamble") means "If you succeed, score two successes. If you fail, you or another player must skip a check in this challenge."

I'd also consider making the qualifiers apply not to skills but specific actions. So I could use Acrobatics to climb a vine and earn a single success if I make the roll, or I could risk a "Daring" Acrobatics roll in order to swing across a chasm on the vine, earning not only a success but some other bonus.

Click to expand...

I like those ideas and I'll look at them. The idea was really to ensure DMs chose at least some attributes that produced successes, but in fact that isn't needed (for much the reasons you point out for failures).

Yogurt-in-BC said:

Presentation-wise, you may want to fix the bullets and change the colour.

I like the idea behind your system a lot and will be using some of the qualifiers to make a challenge for my players.

Click to expand...

Thank you. Indeed the presentation needs work. The templates in the DMG implicitly included extractable properties for skills, so I feel it's likely the core concept is sound, but it really does need playing now.

A little play will quickly reveal the critical bugs, and I suspect with a few revs it'll lock into Obsidian nicely. If you come up with any additions, or ways to make it work more smoothly, please post!

-vk

Version update.

First of all, let me say I'm honored that someone would make houserules off my houserule.

I think what you need to do is take the core ideas of what you want, and cut down until you hit those core ideas.

Right now I think you are listing too many options. For example, I don't think "trained" tag provides any benefit in your system. The advantage of trained is I get a +5 bonus, no need to assign a tag that says I have to be trained to use it.

When your making a system, its always painful to have to cut out things you've worked hard at creating, but ultimately its necessary. I'll be honest, I cringe at seeing that huge list of tags. Try boiling it down to 4 or 5, but get ones that have a significant impact. From there, you can add or remove options as the system evolves.