Magic Item Creation Question

Donatello · Jul 24, 2008

I can't seem to find any official rule on this, and I'd like to get a few opinions before I make a ruling for my campaign.

If an already enchanted item is enchanted further, do you reduce the cost by the price of the original enchantment?

For example; a party member wants to increase the enchantment on his +1 longsword (360gp) to +2 (1800gp). Would the new enchantment cost 1440gp, or would the item have to be disenchanted first, then the 72gp of residuum used?

This would also apply in instances like making a +1 magic weapon into a +1 lifedrinker, or a +1 lifedrinker into a +2 lifedrinker. I already know we can't get the 3.x +1 thundering lifedrinking terror weapon (thank god).

frankthedm · Jul 24, 2008

I would not be surprised if you can't do this. You can strip the item for Residium at an 80% loss...

Scalding · Jul 24, 2008

Donatello said:
For example; a party member wants to increase the enchantment on his +1 longsword (360gp) to +2 (1800gp). Would the new enchantment cost 1440gp, or would the item have to be disenchanted first, then the 72gp of residuum used?

I believe it would have to be disenchanted first.

Mengu · Jul 24, 2008

Enchant Magic Item ritual says you touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item. So it sounds like you can't upgrade an existing magic item.

Also note that Disenchant Magic Item ritual destroys the item, so you would still need to find a normal item to enchant.

Chen_93 · Jul 24, 2008

For flavor or RP purposes I'd have no problems letting a magic item be upgraded. However, you'd take 1/5 the value of the old item and subtract that from the cost of the new item, so that it is functionally equivalent to disenchanting it and making a new one (with the minor savings of not needing another mundane item).

frankthedm · Jul 24, 2008

Chen_93 said:
For flavor or RP purposes I'd have no problems letting a magic item be upgraded. However, you'd take 1/5 the value of the old item and subtract that from the cost of the new item, so that it is functionally equivalent to disenchanting it and making a new one (with the minor savings of not needing another mundane item).

I'd rather give away an item than use it for residium. The exchange rate is too insulting.

Chen_93 · Jul 24, 2008

frankthedm said:
I'd rather give away an item than use it for residium. The exchange rate is too insulting.

The exchange rate is the balanced market rate for used items. Allowing a higher value for trade in will result in more wealth than expected and balanced for. To keep it balanced you'd need to reduce a treasure parcel. Which is doable. Consider the PCs trying to find someone to sell their stuff to at a higher rate as an encounter and reward it, if successful, with a "treasure parcel" equal in value to the difference between what they got for their trade in and the 1/5 value.

Just plain allowing selling for more though, without modifying your parcels will get you into balance trouble.

Arbitrary · Jul 24, 2008

Total monetary treasure of a level 6 party is assumed to be 3600, a +1 item sells for 72, so that's an additional 288 per upgraded +1 item, which is under 10% so actually less than a single treasure parcel. You are indeed adding quite a bit of cash to the campaign by allowing upgrades as they were in 3.0 or 3.5.

Thinking about it, you could just remove the lowest level magic item to be awarded for that level and let the players go upgrade crazy. Subtracting the level 7 item from the parcels for the 6th level party making all their +1s into +2s is going to require them to upgrade ten items to finally come out ahead in value. Sprinkle in a little extra gold to make up the difference as there is no way they are going to craft that much and call it a day.

frankthedm · Jul 24, 2008

Chen_93 said:
The exchange rate is the balanced market rate for used items. Allowing a higher value for trade in will result in more wealth than expected and balanced for. To keep it balanced you'd need to reduce a treasure parcel. Which is doable. Consider the PCs trying to find someone to sell their stuff to at a higher rate as an encounter and reward it, if successful, with a "treasure parcel" equal in value to the difference between what they got for their trade in and the 1/5 value.

Just plain allowing selling for more though, without modifying your parcels will get you into balance trouble.

The Math is sound, the rate is just unacceptable as long as there is any role playing left in the game. Much as I would burn my comic collection before selling it to a comic store for the insulting rate they would pay, I’d never Sell / Residize an item for 1/5th. I’ll give it to someone who’d appreciate it or vault it for future use in such a manner.

Chen_93 · Jul 24, 2008

frankthedm said:
The Math is sound, the rate is just unacceptable as long as there is any role playing left in the game. Much as I would burn my comic collection before selling it to a comic store for the insulting rate they would pay, I’d never Sell / Residize an item for 1/5th. I’ll give it to someone who’d appreciate it or vault it for future use in such a manner.

You're more than welcome to horde items for role-playing purposes or whatever. The solution I gave is actually perfect to continue role-playing and NOT disrupt the treasure balance of the game while getting some use from the items.

And really selling anything, real world or otherwise, you're likely to take a large hit, especially if said item is going to be used thoroughly. I'd imagine a battle worn +1 longsword doesn't look so hot after killing a couple dozen orcs/kobolds with it...

Magic Item Creation Question

Donatello

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Arbitrary

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