Death in 4e - An Obituary Thread

So we just had our first death in 4th Edition last night! A sad day indeed.

Party (2nd level)
- Dwarf Fighter
- Dragonborn Paladin
- Human Warlord
- Half-elf Cleric
- Halfling Rogue
- Elf Ranger

This was the only encounter of the day, in essence a "random" encounter during their travels. They had plenty of hints that indicated this, so action points and daily powers were in full effect.

Encounter (5th level - 1225 XP)
- 1 Orc Eye of Gruumsh (level 5 controller [leader])
- 2 Orc Berserkers (level 4 brute)
- 1 Orc Raider (level 3 skirmisher)
- 12 Orc Drudges (level 4 minion)

The PCs encountered the band of orcs while scaling a treacherous mountain - the orcs arrived on a cliff above the party a good distance away, forcing the savages to weather a hail of shots as they charged in. Most of the minions were already dead once the melee started to really heat up, brought down by arrows, hand crossbow bolts, and a well-timed breath weapon.

The Rogue and Ranger were using a large boulder as cover for most of the fight, and the main battle raged in front of their cover between the Eye of Gruumsh, a Berserker, and most of the party - the Fighter and Warlord engaged them early on, while the Paladin and Cleric directed their attention where needed. The strikers received some attention from the other Berserker and the Raider as they charged around the far side of the boulder. Instead of sticking around to aid the Ranger the Rogue took off and moved toward the relative safety of the rest of the PCs! The Cleric moved close enough to heal the Ranger but he was still face to face with two angry Orcs, all alone...

The Ranger, wounded but not bloodied, struck out with his daily exploit, knocking the Raider down to bloodied in a single hit as well as slowing him and inflicting ongoing damage to boot. He then moved away, hoping to weather the OAs, leave the slowed Raider behind, and then deal with the Berserker who was likely to chase him. As he stepped away the Berserker swung and missed, but the Raider rolled a natural 20! High-crit with a greataxe left the Ranger at -3 HP. Everyone watched in horror as the Raider then took his turn, dealing a coup de grace to the fallen PC. That was all she wrote for the poor elf.

This death was mostly due to the PCs not fulfilling their roles. The defenders weren't defending, instead playing with the mindset of a striker, concerning themselves with finishing off orcs instead of taking the heat off of the softer PCs. It also didn't help that the Ranger was essentially abandoned in his time of need by the Rogue, who at that point was unwounded and could have afforded to stand his ground for a round or two.

So, hopefully my PCs learn from this and improve their strategy and tactics in future encounters. How about everyone else? What have your deaths been like, and what do you think was the catalyst?

In my case there have been any deaths, but the ranger has twice fallen incapacitated. I didn't have the enemy coup-de-grace him though, because I was assuming the kobolds that they fell to would spend their turns trying to remove the current threat rather than finish off someone already out of the action....

chaotix42 said:

This death was mostly due to the PCs not fulfilling their roles. The defenders weren't defending, instead playing with the mindset of a striker,

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This is one of the problems I have with 4e. A character's role should be defined by it's player, not a rulebook, dm, or anything else.

So you're thinking a PC wizard in 3e should grab his trusty quarterstaff and sally forth against the balor with only his strength, because he doesn't feel like using magic?

Every edition players/classes had roles to play and if the players didn't follow those roles there were consequences... in 2e your fighter couldn't sneak around... even if the player really wanted to.

Classes DO define your roles insofar as the abilities offered by classes are the ones players should focus on...

Sorry for the off-topic reference chaotix

No, don't be absurd, I'm simply suggesting that one might generate a fighter, with the intention of, I dunno, fighting? Instead of just standing there using defensive abilities and getting hit.

JRRNeiklot said:

No, don't be absurd, I'm simply suggesting that one might generate a fighter, with the intention of, I dunno, fighting?

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That's what fighters do. They kick ass and make sure their nearby foes suffer for turning their attention to their allies.

Instead of just standing there using defensive abilities and getting hit.

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I have no idea what class you're talking about, because it's not in the 4e PHB. The fighter is all about hitting his enemies.

I've got to agree with renau1g, the catalyst here was you, the dm, choosing to cdg the ranger, despite encouragement in the DMG to avoid doing so. Danger is one thing, but slaughtering someone who gets isolated will bring your players back to the static battle mindset of 3.x. If you want cinematic battles, you should encourage your players to take risks, rather than pouncing on them.

I disagree, Redclaw. The ranger didn't get isolated. His fellow PCs decided to gang up on the Eye of Gruumsh and leave him to fend off two monsters of a level higher than his own. They found the time to send him a Healing Word but that's it. Instead of pitting both defenders against one foe and wasting one of their marks they could have sent one of them over to take some heat off the Ranger.

As for static battles, I don't know how your 3.X games were, but ours were anything but static. It wasn't long before everyone and their donkey was flying or tumbling with Freedom of Movement. A coup de grace isn't going to suddenly slow everything down now - every encounter so far has featured a mix of incentives to maneuver around the battlefield while sticking close to the party to remain in range of buffs and healing; a nice spread of meaningful choices that as a DM I'm quite pleased with so far.

I do in part blame myself for CDGing the Ranger. I felt a twinge of guilt, but for just a moment. Quite brief.

JRRNeiklot: please don't derail the thread. Thanks.

I'm of the opinion that the Players need to know that yes, the PCs can die if they (or their teammates) screw up. It makes the game more exciting and it encourages cooperation and intelligent play. If your character is never at risk when he falls, but at worst only has to wait a couple of turns until the healer can get to him, then how exciting is that? Where's the risk and challenge? It would fit an orc's character perfectly to CDG a fallen foe (especially an elf, if you're using the classic racial grudge).

Now, if a Player is unlucky and just gets crap roll after crap roll, then I'd be inclined to offer a little mercy. That happens to everyone and it's really out of our hands. But if it's the result of a screwup that could have been helped, then yes. It's adventuring. You know, the profession where it's expected you'll have an exciting life that's typically very short. Adventurers (and by extension, their Players) should be perfectly aware of this.

And yes, I think this concept has a place even in the highly cinematic combat of 4th Edition D&D. In fact, I think it helps to up the already high excitement level that the highly mobile and tactical combat system offers.

Gotta agree to a point -- most of my monsters don't issue CDGs.

However, there's nothing wrong with doing so in your games, if that is the type of game you and your players are having fun with.