Divine Challenge + Certain Justice = Solo Killer?

M

Mentat55

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #1

Certain Justice is the 11th level Champion of Order encounter power:
Attack: Strength + 4 vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage. If the target is marked by you, it is also weakened and dazed until it is not marked by you.

The high accuracy of this attack (before you even include things like flanking, or a boost from a warlord), coupled with Divine Challenge, would seem to neutralize a solo monster almost completely. It appears the only option the monster would have would be to somehow retreat to a location where the paladin cannot continue to engage it, thus ending the Divine Challenge.

As it happens, my PCs are currently rocking my solo brute with just such an approach, coupled with lots of slowing and immobilizing, making retreat essentially impossible.

Thoughts, suggestions, etc?

 

log in or register to remove this ad

Gloombunny

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #2

I would've said that Certain Justice is in dire need of an errata, but it has an errata that doesn't weaken it at all. Go figure.

It's pretty plainly broken, if you ask me. I say let the party win this fight with it, but then explain that using the power as written makes it impossible for you to run interesting solo fights, and house-rule the power to have a (save ends) or some other limit to its duration.

 

eamon

Explorer

• Aug 13, 2008

• #3

Paladins are great solo killers. Certain Justice isn't a sure thing, but it's damn powerful, all right. Solo's can use action points, though, which helps, and if it can stay away for one round, the divine challenge ends.

 

R

Runestar

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #4

Solo's can use action points, though, which helps, and if it can stay away for one round, the divine challenge ends.

Click to expand...

A paladin using ranged weapons can maintain the mark, since you only need to have attacked it, not attacked it successfully. So just make sure he has a few javelins...

Also, it simply says "marked", rather than "marked by the paladin". Does this mean that certain justice works on a solo already marked by the fighter's combat challenge? I am wondering if marks are deemed universal...

 

M

Mentat55

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #5

The text about marking was errata'ed, it specifically says if you marked the target, then the target is dazed and weakened until you no longer mark the target. So it being marked by a buddy doesn't qualify.

 

R

Runestar

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #6

Fair enough. At least you can still maintain the mark with ranged attacks.

 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

• Aug 13, 2008

• #7

So what would be a good fix? Making it save ends seems like a big nerf, and kind of boring.

What about just omitting dazed? Then there is a more realistic chance for the creature to escape. And a weaken effect that can be held for the whole encounter is very good by itself.

 

M

Mengu

First Post

• Aug 13, 2008

• #8

If you change it to "save ends," that would tone down the power to about the equivalent of some daily powers.

The fix should be to add "until the end of your next turn." This will make it on par with other encounter powers. There are no other 11th level encounter powers that have a lasting effect for more than 1 turn. The only one that comes close is The One Sword, and even that will eventually miss.

 

T

tombowings

Explorer

• Aug 13, 2008

• #9

Well, , the monster could always attack some one else, taking damage from divine challenge and be no longer marked by the paladin.

...but I may be missing something.

 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

• Aug 13, 2008

• #10

I don't know, "end of turn" seems rather weak to me. All Bets are Off (pit fighter 11) and Anvil of Doom (fighter 12) do more damage and can daze or even stun until the end of turn. Skirmish Ploy (Combat Veteran 11) attacks reflex, does the same damage, dazes until end of turn, and lets you and an ally shift. The One Sword does more damage, dazes, and you can retain the power.

The attack bonus on Champion of Order is certainly nice, and it does weaken as well. But it also only works for a marked target, that's not always convenient.

At the very least, if it was end of turn, I think the damage should go up to 2[w].

Well, , the monster could always attack some one else, taking damage from divine challenge and be no longer marked by the paladin.

Click to expand...

The monster would still be marked in that situation.

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2008