Advice on DMing a huge party

Ok, here's the story - I've recently started running a FR game, and due to all kinds of happy coincidences found myself with 9 surprisingly non-frightening and normal players. (I swear, my luck is completely perverse... Either months pass with not a gamer in sight, or people that make me think of KotDT, or I find myself with enough people for two or three games.)

We've played four sessions so far, and I think I'm getting an ok grip on the basics of running a large group (mainly having to do with keeping order), and the fact that, even with two or three people out, the game can go on, is definitely a plus.

What I am looking for are suggestions for challanging combat encounters for a large group, that get around a couple of problems:

1. If I try to challenge a large group with an appropriate number of lower-level enemies, it stops being a combat, and becomes a small battle... And there's nothing wrong with that, for certain encounters, but not for every combat, because it simply takes too long.

2. Trying to challenge them with a smaller number of more powerful enemies definitely speeds up combat, but throwing something at them that can stand up to the damage four fighter-types, four casters and a rogue can dish out also means that it will be doing a hell of a lot more damage than the individual party members should be ablde to handle - which greatly increases the chances of character death, and can result in some of the tanks consistently getting knocked out in a somewhat unheroic and frustrating fashion. (their own fault, in part, for going for two-handed weapons and mobility over defense, but I do want them to have fun regardless).

So, does anyone have any suggestions? The party is currently mostly 4th level, with, as I mentioned, 4 fighter-types, a cleric, a mage, a sorcerer, a druid, and a rogue. Encounter types, reccommended monsters, spells that can slow down a large group without actually taking people out of the fight altogether and leaving them with nothing to do? Thanks...

Oh, and any of my players, plese keep your beaks out of the thread... (Josh in particular, since I know for a fact he lurks around here)

9 PC's?

My advice don't do it. It generally will not work IMO

my advice is this, you have 10 people. Split up into 2 groups of 5. In each group you have 4 pcs and 1 dm. The two DM's do a co-game. You could run an Evil vs Good campaign were one group is evil PCs an the other good PCs.

hammymchamham said:

my advice is this, you have 10 people. Split up into 2 groups of 5. In each group you have 4 pcs and 1 dm. The two DM's do a co-game. You could run an Evil vs Good campaign were one group is evil PCs an the other good PCs.

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Much better advice!

I would like to second (or is that third) the "don't", but if you are absolutely commited to a 10 person game, then I would recommend using minis, and possibly having one of the players co-DM, help keep track of initiative, inventory, and other minor things allowing you to focus on plot and combat. Get cheat sheets for all the monsters and characters, with their HP, AC, saves, and attacks, and arrange them in initiative order.

Other than that, good luck, and may Cthulhu help you.

I disagree with Magic Rub; I have 8 regular players, and I DM up to 12 people on a fairly regular basis. The trick is in organization, speed, and a lack of table talk. Here's what I find works:

1. Explicitly ask them to minimize table talk. With lots of people, table talk can become a huge problem. I use the "pig" system to minimize this, and my players love it. (It's been mentioned a few times here; if you don't know what I'm talking about, post, and I'll give details.) Also, game in a quiet space with no TV nearby.

2. Make combat speedy. Use index cards for each combatant. DON'T track monster hit points on the index cards; track them on a sheet of paper in front of you. Every time you flip a card for the next player's initiative, announce who is "on deck" and "in the hole", so that they have their actions ready to go. That's really important! And remember, fast combat means less table talk as well, as people don't get bored.

3. Minimize rules discussions. Each player should have the PHB open to the correct page if they're using an uncommon spell or trying something wacky like grappling or disarming. Allow a max of a minute or two for any odd rules calls; after that, just make a decision and look it up afterwards.

4. Make sure you involve all players equally. If your plots focus on a PC, move the plot focus around. Always ask the quieter PCs what they want to do, and have the NPCs engage them in conversation.

5. Customize your monsters. Not only does it minimize metagame thinking, it lets you create hard-to-kill monsters that are a little bit less lethal. Use monsters that are challenging or surprising, and which use unusual tactics (walking on walls, for instance). If you use more numerous-but-less-powerful monsters, roll lots of dice at once and don't fuss too much on each creature's exact movement if it takes too much time.

Hope that helps!

Ok, let me reiterate this: The combat, so far, hasn't been a problem in terms of organization - I do use minis, and have a lot of experience with running 3E combat.

The idea of splitting into two groups has been considered, but so far, everyone's been having fun (or so they say), and , more importantly, some of the people do have busy schedule - which means that, in any given session, we're more likely to have 5-7 players, with some running multiple PC's, which is much more manageable.

The primary issue, at this point, is, as I said - encounter ideas. Anyone?

Don't listen to these nay-sayers.

My last fully-fledged campaign had 10 PCs, and my current one has worked its way up from 5 to 8, with at least one more and possibly 2 to come.

And, the previous campaign was Rolemaster - which is a lot harder to run with a big group.

If you've got a handle on maintaining control, and keeping things running smoothly - which your initial post stated you have - then go for it.

As to encounter-balancing...

That's a hard one. Most of the combats I'm running at the moment are of a fairly decent size. As you stated, a small number of challenging adversaries generally means a pretty good chance of PC death.

With a large party though, you must have a multi-skilled group. I'd think about sticking with mainly big combats (and, as Mr Vengeance, stated, use minis), but having less of them. Then you can get some of those non-combat abilities into play regularly. Take a close look at each PC's capabilities, and make sure you're usuing some of the more obscure spells/skills that PCs have picked up (outside of combat). One of the biggest challenges for a DM with a large group is making sure each player gets a bit of the spotlight. If you drop the # of combats, you can fit in more of that sort of stuff.

mmu1 said:

What I am looking for are suggestions for challanging combat encounters for a large group...
2. Trying to challenge them with a smaller number of more powerful enemies definitely speeds up combat, but throwing something at them that can stand up to the damage four fighter-types, four casters and a rogue can dish out also means that it will be doing a hell of a lot more damage than the individual party members should be ablde to handle - which greatly increases the chances of character death, and can result in some of the tanks consistently getting knocked out in a somewhat unheroic and frustrating fashion. (their own fault, in part, for going for two-handed weapons and mobility over defense, but I do want them to have fun regardless).

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To take a page from Piratecat's idea, make custom critters more challenging by increasing their defense more than their offense. A creature with boosted hp & ac but not so lethal in attacks will give everyone in a large party a chance to at least try to get their licks in.

Also, area attacks which deal less damage per opponent, but can potentially affect more than one of the party at a time (poison gas, area spells, etc.).

Environmental challenges might help too. i.e. the rogue has to disable the pit trap so the fighters can reach the concealed archers, etc. etc.

i ran a game for 6 months with 16 people. My advice ... DONT!