Buying and Selling of Gems & Jewelry

Naturally, this has probably been brought up umpteen times as well (see my Rogue Sneak Attack thread in D&D Rules), but here goes:

My players are getting up in level, and have a lot of cash now. Rather than store it in the abandoned temple that they now live in, they'd like to invest it in gems and jewelry to make it more portable. Now... *I* figure that if you spend 1000 gp on a gem, then when you sell it, you're going to lose money on it, otherwise the shop would never make a profit. The players think otherwise. They think that they should get book value for the gems... (or really close to what they appraise them for when they find them).

Generally, when they sell them, they get 80% of their actual value.

My thoughts on it... Perhaps I CAN give them "book value" when they trade their gems in... but when they BUY them, they'll be at a 20% markup.

What does everyone else do?


Chris

I don't give my players full value on gems and jewelry, primarily for the economic reasons you mention. However, I always roll an appraise check for the buyer, and in one case blew it quite badly and the players received *more* than the actual value of the items.

My players don't seem to have a problem with this system, probably because I'm fairly stingy with the cash. Getting 70-80% of the value on gems is still a good amount of money for them.

Randy

It's all about supply and demand... if your players wanna get down to the nitty gritty of it

Fact, certain gemstones are more common to specific areas of the world, where they can be found in large quantities - thus, in those areas, the price of these stones is usually lower than market value... but, in another region of the world, those gemstones could be quite rare and unusual, thus be worth considerably more.

Example, pearls are common along seacoasts (gross oversimplification, I know...), but deep in the interior of a continent, pearls are a bit less common and harder to come by, so their value is going to be much higher than say an amethyst, which can be found in just about any area quartz is found in quantity (which is most areas).

Real world, if I remember correctly, there are only three mines in the entire world in which emeralds can be mined... thus, quality emeralds are actually more precious than diamonds, because of their rarity.

I know that this is a gross oversimplification of the complicated system of supply and demand, but it's something that people in the real world use to their advantage, so why can't characters in a fantasy world?

My players know that if they want "book value" on gems, they need to visit some gnomes, or someone else who really, really wants those gems.

Otherwise, I use a variable scale of the percentage value. Sometimes -- if they roll real well and the buyer rolls very poorly -- they can get book value or a little more. But usually they are going to get less than book value.

The players have a better outcome using the gems in barter for magic items.

I give 'em straight book value. In one of the core books (can't remember where,) it mentions trade goods, i.e. items whose value is a constant, and are therefore often used in barter. I believe that precious metals and gems were on that list. A gem's value isn't going to change too much (barring a new diamond mine opening up next door,) so I think a lot of people would see that as a safe and convenient way to 'port money.

As to the question of how the jeweler makes money, that's simple, he sells jewelry. I don't think he has to rely on undervaluing salable gems to turn a profit. If it helps, consider a bank. Most larger banks will exchange currency for their members free of charge. They deal in money, but they don't feel the need to charge a fee for changing one kind of money into another. Why? They make their money elsewhere. And when someone wants a loan, who's he going to go to? The bank which gave him a hard time about getting some US dollars for his Japanese yen, or the one which helped him out as a courtesy?

All that said, my players actually prefer a letter of credit from a well-known money-lender. Especially since one of my PCs had a ton of liquid cash swiped by a pickpocket a few sessions ago.

Given most of my campaign takes place in a pretty localised area, my players have a regular gem merchant who takes care of all their buying and selling and treats the entire process as a game. One thing they're slowly starting to work out is that he'll take them for all he can get, but if they catch him out or drive a hard bargin, they'll usually get a good deal.

Mostly, though, buying and selling is a pretty fluid process. Sometime's they'll get ripped off, and sometimes they'll make a little ont he exchange. The players with appraise and good charisma scores come out on the plus side a little more often than everyone else. I do suspect that sooner or later they'll reach a point where they know enough and trade enough that they'll get full value for everything - but that's when the gp limits for trade come in

Arwink

Everything must be at exactly book value, or the Multiverse Consumer Police will descend on your jeweller and cart him away to the Sean K Reynolds Correctional Institute Though it beats me why players mewl and whine so much when they don't think they're getting enough bang for their bucks - I bet if they could get some NPC sucker to pay over the odds, they'd laugh all the way to the bank. Boot on the other foot, and all that.

Seriously, though, I doubt if it's worth the hassle of enforcing a loss on the transaction. The D&D economic system, as has been discussed at some length in another thread, has a *few* holes, so everything should be regarded as an approximation for game purposes.....

I figure things simply:

If it's something the PCs want to buy, the the book price is what it's sold for.

If it's something the PCs want to sell, the book price is what it's bought for.

Weapons, armor, magic items, horses -- anything used in adventuring (even if it's something this particular group of PCs doesn't need) can be purchased from shops for list price.

Gems, artwork, trade goods -- anything not used in adventuring (even if a particularly vain PC might want an expensive brooch) can be sold to shops for the list price.

My reasoning is that the books are designed for adventurers, so prices should be those most useful to them. This attitude also makes the standard treasure tables make sense.

Finally, I figure most merchants do a 100% markup on goods. So you can sell adventuring goods to stores for half of list price, and purchase nonadventuring goods from stores for double list price.

Daniel

I don't remember where I saw it, but there was a magical item that they would find much use out of. I think it was a balance, you put gems onto one end and on the other end the value of the gems transfers into gold on the other end of the balance. And I believe you could do it the opposite way, too, somehow...

Gems & Jewelry are like any other commodity. The price is based on supply and demand (as mentioned earlier).

As for "Book values", I consider them pretty much just general guidelines. Generally I impose a 30% buy rate for anything that the PC's want to sell flat-out for cash value. I usually up the value to 50% if they're willing to trade their goods in for other things. You have to remember that there is generally a 300% mark-up on anything vendor initially buys. That's just simple mercantilism.

Yeah, as a party, you generally get screwed. But if you go to the same vendor in the same city everytime you get some loot, the prices are generally much friendlier since you're a repeat customer. This also discourages the practice of "Monty Hauling" and hording.

Also, why not have the PC's invest their money in lands, property, keeps, etc? If I were a high-level wizard, I'd be damned if I were to keep residence with a bunch of people in some cramped temple. I'd build myself a keep befitting my power and stature.

The question also perks the question of "how much longer should I adventure?" At some point, the grizzled old dwarven fighter should have enough power and authority to make other adventurers do the dirty work. A person of wealth and prestige has no time or need to risk life and limb. That is, if your name isn't Conan.