How to get long battles?

This occured to me last time: since we play 3rd edition no battle lasted any longer than about 6 rounds. And that occured only once. Most fights take only about 2-3 rounds.

And that's not because I have a high-level party, even at low levels the battles tend to be fast. Somehow I'm missing the epic clashes from 2nd edition, when a one-on-one fight between two fighters could easily take 10 rounds.

Anybody camping with the same problems? Any suggestions how to get big, long fights loaded with suspension?

Don't have the evil mage specialize in invocation, have him specialize in abjuration.

lots of mid lvl warriors (fighters or such) with 1 lvl of rogue for evasion.

That would make it so that most area spells do minimum damage and they have high BAB and HD to drag out the fight...


maybe even a couple clerics in the back healing...

Xar said:

This occured to me last time: since we play 3rd edition no battle lasted any longer than about 6 rounds. And that occured only once. Most fights take only about 2-3 rounds.

And that's not because I have a high-level party, even at low levels the battles tend to be fast. Somehow I'm missing the epic clashes from 2nd edition, when a one-on-one fight between two fighters could easily take 10 rounds.

Anybody camping with the same problems? Any suggestions how to get big, long fights loaded with suspension?

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I never found 2e fights to last all that long either. Very long fights usually only happen in unusual circumstances, typically when neither side can engage each other at optimim range or when both sides' most potent attack capabilities are otherwise inhibited.

My longest fight ever, @30 rounds, was in a solid fog spell inside a warehouse. (This was a Living City Adventure that I DMed). The PCs and their foes were forced to close range at about 3' per round. Missile fire and magic attacks were near impossible due to line of sight problems. I think it took 10 rounds before the PCs and their foes got into melee with each other.

My second longest fight was about 20-25 rounds, this one was on a ship. The ranges were so extreme that we were using missile fire and VERY long rang spells for quite some time before both ships caught on fire and began to sink.

The longest 3e fight I have been in was about 15 rounds, when we were facing some babau demons. Once we started kicking their ass in melee, they fled up some redwood trees. Most of us were in heavy armor and weren't willing to remove it to climb trees after them. The elf in light armor could've climbed easily but he didn't want to face the demons alone in the trees. (To top it all off, we were in a forest which was dry due to an autumn drought so we couldn't risk burning them out (and they are resistant to fire).

Tzarevitch

Sodalis said:

lots of mid lvl warriors (fighters or such) with 1 lvl of rogue for evasion.

That would make it so that most area spells do minimum damage and they have high BAB and HD to drag out the fight...


maybe even a couple clerics in the back healing...

Click to expand...

That only works for lower levels. At levels 10+ it makes no sense to get healing (aside from a heal), as the players hack their way trough everything in their path. Really, at high levels it's very difficult to get a good fight at the final confrontation with the main baddie. Everyone and everything will be mangled in one or two rounds. Oh, sure those 2 rounds could be propped with action, but it still seems silly that the entire fight is over in just 12 seconds...

The fights are sometimes so quick that magic users often find it difficult to get a couple of their most damaging spells off. Not really heroic, huh...

Have the battle done in waves. Not everyone should attack at once. Have some of the NPC stay back and let the pions wear the players down, then send in the heavy artillery.

Every good fantasy-based movie has the characters face the lesser goons before the final showdown. The fact that the characters are injured and fatigued only adds to the tension and excitement.

In general I also think combat has become somewhat fast... even when I did mass combat the players waded into the orcs killing everything.

Barbarians have very high damage and Mages have very powerful spells... hard to resist both.

The longest combats I saw were where hit and run tactics or horseback archery were used.


More defensive tactics by villains could help getting longer combat scenes.

Re: Re: How to get long battles?

Tzarevitch said:

My second longest fight was about 20-25 rounds, this one was on a ship. The ranges were so extreme that we were using missile fire and VERY long rang spells for quite some time before both ships caught on fire and began to sink.

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I don't really have anything to contribute to this thread, but I just have to say: That must have sucked, dude.

PC1: "Alright! Their ship is going down! Victory is ours!"
PC2: "Um, I kind of hate to ask, but do we have any potions of water breathing tucked away?"
PC1: "Why?"

I alos think fights are very short. I think our longest fight thus far has been about 8 rounds in 3e, as compared to 25 round monster fight in 2e.

Some fights have lasted about a round. A Slaad jumps out of hiding and pounces on the wizard, dropping him in one series of attacks. Then it wins initiative and drops the sorceress. Our fighter adjusts, and full attacks. I wing a Sunspear into and it explodes. A single foe that was slightly weaker than our group died in a round and surprise round, after dropping two low HP characters.

I think that's very fast.

I think the system gives a significant nod to offense over defense, especially with monster stats. Most monsters have really good attack values and relatively poor AC. In a reasonable encounter, the monster will probably have little trouble hitting you and you'll be able to power attack it. Since the monster will be able to hit you despite a good AC, players will focus on offense to prevent damage. For example, in our last session, characters with high 20s AC were getting ripped up by CR5 monsters. In my brother's group, he used buffs to get a 31 AC (highest in the group by far) and the monster needed a 3 to hit.

Since offense > defense, battles will be short.

For longer battles, set the starting encounter distance to be farther away. Use cover to boost ACs and concealment to force misses. Foes with high mobility should attack then move away, especially if hasted.

Have the battle done in waves. Not everyone should attack at once. Have some of the NPC stay back and let the pions wear the players down, then send in the heavy artillery.

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Isn't that tactically ineffective? By concentrating firepower, the villians should have a better chance of winning than by spreading things out. I can see having one group close then another group go ranged attacks, and then rotate out to heal any survivors, or using screens of summoned monsters or illusions, but just hanging around behind a Wall of Force (part of the reason that 2e fight lasted so long - they split their force for us) waiting for the heroes to get done with the fodder is pretty dumb.

Battles will last ~2-3 rounds if the combatants start toe-to-toe and slug it out.

It is not difficult to slow the combat down if you have some magic. Fogs, clouds, walls, darkness, and distance can all substantially slow down the pace. Spring Attack and Shot on the Run also come to mind. Consider potions of Blur or Displacement.

The real advantage of doing things in waves is so the DM can hit the players with different tactics and creatures, while not having to think about how to mesh different styles at the same time.