If I eliminated the cleric class....
- Thread starter Buttercup
- Start date
EOL
First Post
I guess the first question is why would you want to? There was a period in the History of the Dragonlance world where there were no clerics, because they'd fled. As a consequence a large part of the initial campaign was looking for this lost gods.
What I'm trying (and largely failing) to say is that the reason for the lack of clerics should in large part determine what you should do with the game world and how you should compensate.
As far as the plane thing goes, since the gods live on the outer planes and not on the specific world the characters come from there's no reason to take away their spells, plus if you really intended to run a planer campaign you should try to come up with restriction that a more or less equal for every class, not ones that completely hose one class but leave the other pretty much untouched.
What I'm trying (and largely failing) to say is that the reason for the lack of clerics should in large part determine what you should do with the game world and how you should compensate.
As far as the plane thing goes, since the gods live on the outer planes and not on the specific world the characters come from there's no reason to take away their spells, plus if you really intended to run a planer campaign you should try to come up with restriction that a more or less equal for every class, not ones that completely hose one class but leave the other pretty much untouched.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
First, I should say that I'm really just kicking these ideas around. This campaign will start in May. So I've go a little time yet. But I got my idea out of Tuerny's game (it's in Story Hour. "A Lone Tower....").
The players will start the campaign by going to work for a wizard who wants their help in a ritual. It will go very wrong, and he will shove them through a portal to save them. I figured that if there were a cleric, they might not have access to their god in the place they went, and I didn't want to let a player do all that work on a character that would turn out to be useless.
So, no clerics as a starting class. Maybe they could become clerics later, I haven't decided.
I like the idea of undead becomming very tough. But having no one in the party who can cast healing spells would be a pain in the butt. I suppose I could make healing potions very cheap. But I like the idea that a sorcerer could have access to healing magic. I mean, who can say what powers a sorcerer has within themselves?
Final note. I won't be allowing druids to start with either. The party won't be in their old world, and they won't know their new one well enough to become a druid for quite some time, if ever, I would think.
The players will start the campaign by going to work for a wizard who wants their help in a ritual. It will go very wrong, and he will shove them through a portal to save them. I figured that if there were a cleric, they might not have access to their god in the place they went, and I didn't want to let a player do all that work on a character that would turn out to be useless.
So, no clerics as a starting class. Maybe they could become clerics later, I haven't decided.
I like the idea of undead becomming very tough. But having no one in the party who can cast healing spells would be a pain in the butt. I suppose I could make healing potions very cheap. But I like the idea that a sorcerer could have access to healing magic. I mean, who can say what powers a sorcerer has within themselves?
Final note. I won't be allowing druids to start with either. The party won't be in their old world, and they won't know their new one well enough to become a druid for quite some time, if ever, I would think.
I've been considering doing a no magic world. All Psionic. Psionic healing puts a different feel on things. Eliminate Body Adjustment for an even darker feel. All damage must be naturally healed by somebody.
Kichwas
Half-breed
There was an incident in my last campaign that made me realize I didn't like clerics:
The PCs were injured in a fight on a dark street near the docks. They rush over to a shrine to the goddess of the oceans and bang on the door. I have a priest come out and the PCs start bargaining for healing.
This is a perfectly normal DnD thing to do.
My players were completely justified in it and I was completely without argument to see any wrong in it.
That's simply how the game sets itself up.
Religious people are for getting a recharge...
And that's where I found my problem. They just didn't feel like religious nuts anymore.
So I'm dropping the cleric and all healing classes from the game. I'm also dropping all arcane magic classes. I'm going to replace it with a different magic system.
The Sovereign Stone and Wheel of Time ones are the best candidates among the published options.
I particularly like how healing in Wheel of Time just converts the damage to subdual. So you're still hurt just not in the same way.
I plan to replace the religious types with the Priest class in Fading Suns d20. Those guys are all about what a Priest should be about: social issues, connections, and zealotry.
They have no magic. No more than my local Friar, Paster, Priest, Rabbi, Iman, Monk, Shaman, Wacko on the street has...
The PCs were injured in a fight on a dark street near the docks. They rush over to a shrine to the goddess of the oceans and bang on the door. I have a priest come out and the PCs start bargaining for healing.
This is a perfectly normal DnD thing to do.
My players were completely justified in it and I was completely without argument to see any wrong in it.
That's simply how the game sets itself up.
Religious people are for getting a recharge...
And that's where I found my problem. They just didn't feel like religious nuts anymore.
So I'm dropping the cleric and all healing classes from the game. I'm also dropping all arcane magic classes. I'm going to replace it with a different magic system.
The Sovereign Stone and Wheel of Time ones are the best candidates among the published options.
I particularly like how healing in Wheel of Time just converts the damage to subdual. So you're still hurt just not in the same way.
I plan to replace the religious types with the Priest class in Fading Suns d20. Those guys are all about what a Priest should be about: social issues, connections, and zealotry.
They have no magic. No more than my local Friar, Paster, Priest, Rabbi, Iman, Monk, Shaman, Wacko on the street has...
Humanophile
First Post
Be careful just up and handing cure spells to arcane casters. 3e clerics have spontaneous curing for a good reason; back in 2e, people either houseruled free casting and vastly overpowered the casting classes, or clerics were expected to fill every available spell slot with cure spells. Be careful that your sorcerer doesn't feel put upon to cure and do nothing else, and that your wizard has options other than cure spells. (Granted, this is a player issue, but it happens in pretty much every party.)
Lack of undead turning isn't so bad (although inserting a spell that does practically that wouldn't hurt too much), but you have to be very careful about level and ability draining creatures, possibly even houseruling to tone some of them down. And do include other ways to cure oneself; curing is the DM's friend for when he overestimates the party's ability to withstand harm, so be liberal with cure potions and such. It might be wise to lift restrictions on creating and using said items, so your party can have curing potions/wands/etc easily on hand, while keeping them from casting Heal every time they catch cold.
Lack of undead turning isn't so bad (although inserting a spell that does practically that wouldn't hurt too much), but you have to be very careful about level and ability draining creatures, possibly even houseruling to tone some of them down. And do include other ways to cure oneself; curing is the DM's friend for when he overestimates the party's ability to withstand harm, so be liberal with cure potions and such. It might be wise to lift restrictions on creating and using said items, so your party can have curing potions/wands/etc easily on hand, while keeping them from casting Heal every time they catch cold.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Yah....the biggest problem will be having the PC's survive the damage dealt to them.
I wouldn't give wizards and sorcs healing spells (I dunno...it seems to kinda ruin the flavor, for me, but, hey, that's just me). There's probably no mechanical reason not to (maybe increase the levels by 1, though), but it does constrain the spells per day they can cast, and the spells known...
I'd just be REALLY liberal with healing potions, and maybe replace the wizard's Scribe Scroll with Brew Healing Potion (like Brew Potion, but healing spells only).
Or just introduce a common plant that acts like a cure X wounds spell, or something.
Though, personally, I wouldn't stop the cleric from preaching in a new world...I'd say, in fact, that the cleric could be the first agent of the god in this world, wanting to establish a toe-hold in this new world. Right now, Bob the Priest is the only one who can hear the voices of Pelor. But, perhaps by preaching the word, Bob can help convert a new flock...it's like going to a world accross the sea or a new culture, and being the first to introduce you god. And, in D&D, this means that the relationship between god and priest is that much more important, when the priest is the only one who knows the god exists.
I wouldn't give wizards and sorcs healing spells (I dunno...it seems to kinda ruin the flavor, for me, but, hey, that's just me). There's probably no mechanical reason not to (maybe increase the levels by 1, though), but it does constrain the spells per day they can cast, and the spells known...
I'd just be REALLY liberal with healing potions, and maybe replace the wizard's Scribe Scroll with Brew Healing Potion (like Brew Potion, but healing spells only).
Or just introduce a common plant that acts like a cure X wounds spell, or something.
Though, personally, I wouldn't stop the cleric from preaching in a new world...I'd say, in fact, that the cleric could be the first agent of the god in this world, wanting to establish a toe-hold in this new world. Right now, Bob the Priest is the only one who can hear the voices of Pelor. But, perhaps by preaching the word, Bob can help convert a new flock...it's like going to a world accross the sea or a new culture, and being the first to introduce you god. And, in D&D, this means that the relationship between god and priest is that much more important, when the priest is the only one who knows the god exists.
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