When did the archetype of wizards wanting to become god come about?

A quick reflection before I go watch Soul taker.

At what did in history did you get the now cliche of power-hungry wizard wanting to become god? As far western literature goes, the only thing that comes to my mind is Raistlin in the Dragonlance Legends. However, I just can't believe that Weis & co were that original; they weren't even that good of authors! Anyone else with any ideas?

I look back and I don't remember any wizard in pulp tales, i.e., Howard and Leiber, wanting to become one. But it's been a while since I've read them, so I could be wrong. Looking at the implication of such fantasy archetype, I believe that there are no traditional western wizard/priest/magus/druid types in literature before 19th century. I just don't think that the Western mind could grasp the concept of becoming a god.

There were gnostics and other, older Helenistic mystery religions dealing with becming gods, but I don't think there are any Helenistic/Roman/Alexandrian romances or stories about such person. Maybe those were the closest we got to the concept of becoming a god, before 19th century? I know that the Faust legend, whether Goethe or Mallowe, didn't deal with actually becoming a god per se.

How about Simon Magus, pre Christian cooptation? Was he supposed to have become a god? Or Celtic Merlyn

My rides here.

I've only ever seen the Conan movies, but those wizzy types seem to quest for godly power.

Argueably, though, in conan the wizards _WERE_ gods. It could be a precident, though...

Tell me how that is, btw, jack. Been meaning to pick it up.

Perhaps it's a variation on the Prometheus myth, which you can trace through countless stories all the way to the modern day. One that might be pivotal as far as fantasy is concerned was Frankenstein, which merged the Prometheus myth with genre fiction. I think that the mad scientist is the same archetype as the mad wizard.

I dunno - just a possibility.

Well, it sounds like you're asking, when did a particular genre convention become a convention, in reference to a particular archetype.

Aside from Faust, who helped set the standard, there are plenty of power-mad wizards in historical myth and legend. Some WERE demigds. Yes, Faust didn't specifically want to be a god, but he certainly wanted blind power. There are certainly tons of greek characters who want to be gods, or have their power, or rival them. Never mind groups like the Golden Dawn, Rosucrucians, and tons of other historical wacko groups out there.


I mean, if you're looking for a specific character of a Vancian wizard obsessed with apotheosis, well, yes, it is a recent archetype. But it's not exactly revolutionary, either.

Thematically, D&D wizards are very close to scientists and scholars searching for forbidden knowledge and treading in God's Domain.
Examples: Dr. Frankenstein, H.P. Lovecraft's work.

It's a simple leap from playing god to wanting to be god.

Our ideas of wizardry - a scholarly pursuit, involving languages, arcane symbolism and the like - is highly influenced by ceremonial magic, which incorporated myriad occult practices into one (very disparate) whole.

Those influences included Gnostic thought, Egyptian occultism (not the actual practices of old Khem, but the popular ideas of what they practiced), misunderstood Cabalism, gypsy superstitions and a huge body of alchemical lore left over from earlier times (which itself incorporated Hellenic and Islamic ideas).

One of the things that many of these systems had in common was a refinement of the spirit, or the idea of nascent divinity in all human beings. From the pharoah-ideal of popular Egyptology, the touching of Godhead in Cabalism and the refinement of the Self that was supposed to be the core of alchemy, it is easy to see how the ceremonial magician earned himself the reputation as a seeker of power not for power's sake, but for the ability to become divine.

Umm... does anybody remember Saruman from Tolkien? It's made pretty clear that eventually, he'd have tried to replace Sauron.

For that matter many of the old mythologies have tales of people who got smacked-down for trying to surpass/replace a god. For instance IIRC, there's a greek myth about the Origin of the Spider where a woman claims she's a better weaver than one of the Fates.

Warning against the sin of Hubris is pretty common.

To some degree i think that is true, that western culture can not grasp becoming a god, but that was more of the common thinking... many kings considered themselves the next best thing to a god, and some thought they were even hand picked by god to be in their current social standing.

Its like McBeth, he never dreamed of becoming a god, but to him, god was his king, and when he took it, be went mad with power.

It almost seems like Wizards having evil destinies is a new idea, but it does make sense, their spells and abilities are mistunderstood by common people, their magics make them outcasts, and their abilities to mess around with peoples minds and shoot fireballs can only be the work of siatan!...

sorry, i often do that, but wizards just have the power at higher levels to compete with some gods- (THIS POST IS BEFORE THE EPIC HANDBOOK)

GuardianLurker said:

Umm... does anybody remember Saruman from Tolkien? It's made pretty clear that eventually, he'd have tried to replace Sauron.

Click to expand...

Nope - Saruman wasn't 'human'. He was already divine, just of a lower order than the Valar. Got the point, though.

-Fletch!