Proposed: That a bunch of people get together and run a series of high-level fights in 4e so that we get a feel for what non-1st level play feels like.
Ground Rules
1. One fightThree Encounters; no extended rest -- It starts with "roll initiative". You can have stages, triggered events, etc. inside of the events but it's just three fights with only short rests inbetween.
2. If you play... you DM -- If you're a "permanent member" you've promised to run an Kombat Kraziness encounter for the group in the future.
3. Nothing weird -- Street legal PhB characters built using the rules on pg. 143 of the DMG. No "super-specialized" characters (i.e. if the DM says it's a fight with a solo dragon no kitting out your character with Dragonbane weaponry). The goal is to help people develop an idea of what the baseline is and facility with the ruleset.
4. Up to ]8 players -- more people is more crazy; more chances to try difference class/power/race combos, a bigger XP budget, etc.
5. Bring your TPK -- All encounters are legal (fall within XP budget, no ultra high level (or low level) minions, published monsters, or published monsters that are reasonably modified, etc), but as tactically challenging as the DM can make them (Think A3 in KotS).
6. One thread per encounter -- There is one thread with both OOC and IC posts. (just to cut down on the clutter -- the main Kombat Kraziness thread could be used for kibitzing about meta-stuff).
7. Paragon level -- PCs level 11-20
8. It's still roleplaying -- Your character has to have a personality and a background. A line about each is fine. But you can't post just a bunch of stats. (This may just be my preference though...).
9. Everything out in the open -- All rolls are made on logged in accounts on Invisible Castle.
Later on...
we can mix and match all this up. For example:
1. Different victory conditions (besides kill 'em all)
2. Not negotiable
3. If it proves popular we can add in weirdness (MM races, non-standard magic items, etc) later, or even have a "bring the weirdest character you can think of" encounters.
4. It might be interesting to have a lot more players at some point, to really push the system (like 20 4th level characters try to kill a 12th level solo). But I don't, personally, see that as a particularly brilliant idea (online PbP is weakest when lots of people are involved).
5. Obviously, since 4e has the whole encounter/daily situation going in some ways this is a -bad- model of the situation. If it's popular and continues ... we can think about playing around with with more "realistic" situations (a) having some characters randomly down resources (missing dailies, item power uses, etc) OR (b) building that into a skill challenge (to reward taking certain skills) OR (c) something else...
6. One thread should be enough. OOC stuff goes in spoiler blocks. Each statblock goes into the first page of the post.
7. Epic's of little interest to me personally right now. But that'd obviously be on the table for future games...
8. Threw this in at the last moment. It's not a requirement on my end....
9. Maybe the DM doesn't link to certain rolls during the fight (to see an invisible combatant the party doesn't know about); but it should all be searchable by campaign and character name.
Originally: I'd like to consider having Permanent and New Members.
Permanent Member: You're automatically entered into each encounter. You get first pick of class/role and race.You're committed to run an encounter for the group at some point. New Member: First priority for these slots goes to people who've applied to but been rejected from other games/don't have any other games they're in. It's been pointed out that it can be tough to get into games; if it's too frustrating for new people to join games here that's not a good thing (IMHO). So if somebody new is having trouble getting to games we can suggest they come over here
(subject to reason of course -- I wouldn't want to deal with disruptive people, even if it's just a one off.)
Eventually we just filled up with permanent members...
Having two tiers probably wasn't the most practical idea anyway.
Suggested First Encounter: The Grotto of the Kuo-toa
A final fight with the Kuo-toa in their grotto.
8 17th level characters.
Suggested XP budget: ??? (but lots!)
DM: Graf (it'd be sorta lame for me to suggest someone else do it, no? )
A fight in a room that includes "teleport portals".
Aerial battles (airship to airship? -- everybody has a method of flight like a flying carpet?)
Multiple groups of PCs in an arena fight
MINION COMBAT! (Nothing but minions... AKA we're going to need a bigger battlemap)
Fights incorporating skill challenges
Themed combats: (Fire monsters only, all difficult terrain, only "classed" foes, all strikers vs skirmishers/lurkers only)
"Permanent" Members:
Dalamar
Proposed Kombat: Dragon's Lair type encounter cluster
Order: later
1st Character: Darrak Earringer [Dwarven Fighter 17 (Iron Vanguard)]
Evilhalfling
Proposed Kombat: 15th; Angels and Archerons skirmish. Inside/upon solid cloud.
Order: later
1st Character: Gerold the Black, a fighter with a dash of warlord. (1-2 powers)
Graf
Proposed Kombat: The Grotto of the Kua-toa
Order: #1 (unless someone else has a more serious scheduling konflictconflict)
Rayex
Proposed Kombat: A fire-themed encounter. Probably level 17. And no items with fire resistance available! :P
Order: #4?
1st Character:Ailoilisiloilioh (too many vowels!!! )
renau1g
Proposed Kombat: something of a draconic nature
Order:
1st Character: cleric
Victim
1st Character: elven Cleric/Divine Oracle, or a human tactical warlord focused on powers that give people basic attacks
Order: 3rd (provisionally)
Proposed Kombat: Plants
Walking Dad
Order: #2 (has graciously made time despite being busy with his Base of Operations game )
Proposed Kombat: The Black Chauldron
1st Character: Project Belkar
New members:
Covaithe (joined KK2)
Waiting List:
Ata
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I am in an interesting period of my life; I will post in games that I run three times a week (M,W,F); and try to maintain obligations in existing games.
...disquieting...
There was no end to his patience and endurance. He played day and night, his obsession was somewhat disquieting. It was less as if he were playing to dispel gloom or beguile tedium than as if he were giving himself up to the fangs of gaming devils."
Kawabata Yasunari - The Master of Go
Last edited by Graf; 7th October 2008 at 05:10 AM..
Aye, Victim's got a point there.. Perhaps we could set it up so that you make a character, and then have to run that character through a few other DM's adventure's (with some characters swapping in and out as their players switch into the DM's seat), all happening on the same day, kinda like some sort of tournament. Or perhaps your character gets to 'rest' for a day when you're DMing?
This would also help eliminate the 'this character kills dragons, this character beats mages, etc' type.
Proposed: That a bunch of people get together and run a series of high-level fights in 4e so that we get a feel for what non-1st level play feels like.
<...>
New Member: First priority for these slots goes to people who've applied to but been rejected from other games/don't have any other games they're in. It's been pointed out that it can be tough to get into games; if it's too frustrating for new people to join games here that's not a good thing (IMHO). So if somebody new is having trouble getting to games we can suggest they come over here
(subject to reason of course -- I wouldn't want to deal with disruptive people, even if it's just a one off.)
Guess that is somewhat pitched at me and my comment in the tactical game thread. I'm grateful for that. But as mentioned over there, I think building Paragon Level characters is a bit too involved for me as I haven't really been able to know how 1st lvl combat feels in 4e. I don't know how starting characters with all the new hitpoints roll in game or how those 'push-one-square' powers really play out. Hell, I haven't even been able to make a single attack or damage roll (or skill roll) in 4e so far, and I think I'd really want to do that first.
So I'd rather pass on the Paragon stuff for now. Thanks alot for thinking of me though
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"My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death"
One sort of downside is that there's virtually no distinction between Encounter and Daily abilities under this set up.
Very true.
The other option would be to go 3 back-to-back encounters. (so you'd have 1 milestone mixed in, so people could play around with "magic items that recharge at milestones" and the extra action point).
Aye, Victim's got a point there.. Perhaps we could set it up so that you make a character, and then have to run that character through a few other DM's adventure's (with some characters swapping in and out as their players switch into the DM's seat), all happening on the same day, kinda like some sort of tournament. Or perhaps your character gets to 'rest' for a day when you're DMing?
This would also help eliminate the 'this character kills dragons, this character beats mages, etc' type.
I did think about this a little bit. Like having 1 set PC group and it being a "crazy dungeon where every room is completely different".
my thoughts on the "shared dungeon" with 1 DM per area
The pluses are:
More group development
Closer to "real DnD"
Less work for the players (you just keep your character and move to the next section of the dungeon)
cons
More work for the DMs (I didn't pick Kua-toa and 17th level randomly... if I were going second and the group was 13th level then I'd have to build down...)
Less freedom (DMs are limited by the level of the group; players are playing that specific character)
-maybe- trouble swapping characters? (unless you want to go with "People teleport in and out randomly")
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweischneid
Guess that is somewhat pitched at me and my comment in the tactical game thread. I'm grateful for that. But as mentioned over there, I think building Paragon Level characters is a bit too involved for me as I haven't really been able to know how 1st lvl combat feels in 4e. ...<snip>
So I'd rather pass on the Paragon stuff for now. Thanks alot for thinking of me though
You were -definitely- the person who got me started thinking about it. And I did see your comment on not wanting to get into paragon yet.
But I don't think your situation is unique. I've seen (at least) 12 interesting characters on the Lost thread. Some of those players won't be selected... if new folks have applied to a lot of threads and gotten rejected it wouldn't be surprising of they felt dejected -> left -> loss for them & loss for the community.
Maybe it's not a the best idea, but it seemed like it was worth bringing up independent of anyone's specific situation.
I'm already in some 4e games (low priority for being chosen as player), but I would really like to see paragon action and some more crazy character ideas.
Atleast I will lurk this threads
Adventure I would DM:
Against the undead hordes (something like a big resident evil in fantasy fight, using lots of zombies (most are minions) in a slightly confined space(maxing out move utilities and tactics if you are cornered).
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Well, I'm in the running for a couple other 4E games, so not sure where I fall in the priorities list..
The first encounter I'd like to DM would be undead much like WalkingDad's, but I'm leaning more towards the more powerful versions, such as perhaps a small group of Vampires/Liches. The encounter would also be made harder due to having to fight them on ground of their own choosing (their 'lair').
I'm also willing to be the first to give a go at the higher-lvl DMing.
You were -definitely- the person who got me started thinking about it. And I did see your comment on not wanting to get into paragon yet.
But I don't think your situation is unique. I've seen (at least) 12 interesting characters on the Lost thread. Some of those players won't be selected... if new folks have applied to a lot of threads and gotten rejected it wouldn't be surprising of they felt dejected -> left -> loss for them & loss for the community.
Maybe it's not a the best idea, but it seemed like it was worth bringing up independent of anyone's specific situation.
Yah.. thats cool. Just felt like I'd need to say something since this was sort-of addressing me. Not to be rude and just don't reply
As I said, awsome to see things like that starting out from our discussion. I'm sure it'll be cool. And maybe inspiration'll strike me for the ePoL of yours so we get a chance to play together still
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"My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death"
I did think about this a little bit. Like having 1 set PC group and it being a "crazy dungeon where every room is completely different".
my thoughts on the "shared dungeon" with 1 DM per area
The pluses are:
More group development
Closer to "real DnD"
Less work for the players (you just keep your character and move to the next section of the dungeon)
cons
More work for the DMs (I didn't pick Kua-toa and 17th level randomly... if I were going second and the group was 13th level then I'd have to build down...)
Less freedom (DMs are limited by the level of the group; players are playing that specific character)
-maybe- trouble swapping characters? (unless you want to go with "People teleport in and out randomly")
At the range of levels under discussion, characters range from having 3 Daily powers and 3 Utility powers (also potentially daily) to 4 Daily powers and 5 Utilities. So most of the major per day resources will be the same. Therefore, one possibility is offer the ability to link those resources to the player, not necessarily the character.
That way, people don't have to be locked into the same character or level for those resources to matter. If you burn your top level daily in one fight, then a subsequent encounter declared to be a followup will also have your (possibly new) character down his top level daily attack.
Running 3 linked encounters seems like something that would potentially take too much time, but would also work.
----------------------------
As far as encounter ideas go, I'm thinking maybe something with archons, or devils+humans.
__________________ "I'd like to shake the hand of the genius who invented that - just the hand, after it's been cut off from the now screaming man."
I'm in. I to have yet to roll a die in 4e, but aim to correct that soon enough. Nothing like jumping in with both feet to get a feel for it though, eh?!
As for what I'll DM, I haven't a clue. I would suggest that in lieu of having 1 encounter per DM, that each DM make up more of a mini-adventure--something consisting of about three encounters back-to-back. I think that would help make the distinction between encounter and daily powers.
Running 3 linked encounters seems like something that would potentially take too much time, but would also work.
Holy great ideas, Batman! (I was typing the same thing when you posted that.)
It would be a bit more time consuming, but I think worth it in the long run. Everyone will go balls-to-the-wall right out of the box otherwise, and you'll never get an accurate idea of what's really going on.
Or at the very least give the DM the option to run up to three encounters per turn, just to give 'em something to consider when they go blasting away aimlessly.
I have to work on my mapping skills, but I got some ideas for the 3 encounter undead menance.
Or just 2 and switch DM seat with Jemal for vampires and liches.
The Black Chauldron
Spoiler:
First: Introduction to the undead horde.
Characters are in a large tavern that gets rushed by zombie minions and some more powerful variants.
Monsters: Pending
Level ca. 14 Encounter (XP 5,000)
✦ 6 zombie hulks (level 8 brute)
✦ 2 rot scarab swarms (level 8 soldier)
✦ 3 battle wight commander (level 12 soldier (leader))
+ many zombi minions
Second: Reaching the Black Chauldron
Characters get ambushed in a swampy area.
Level 14 Encounter (XP 5,000)
✦ 1 adult black dragon (level 11 solo lurker)
✦ 1 briar witch dryad (level 13 elite controller)
✦ 1 shambling mound (level 9 brute)
Final: Fighting the evil lich and his elite guard.
Fight on ritual chamber, perhaps some magic traps.
Level 14 Encounter (XP 5,000)
✦ 2 boneclaws (level 14 soldier)
✦ 1 lich (level 14 elite controller)
✦ 1 shield guardian (level 14 soldier)
+ Traps
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Holy great ideas, Batman! (I was typing the same thing when you posted that.)
It would be a bit more time consuming, but I think worth it in the long run. Everyone will go balls-to-the-wall right out of the box otherwise, and you'll never get an accurate idea of what's really going on.
Or at the very least give the DM the option to run up to three encounters per turn, just to give 'em something to consider when they go blasting away aimlessly.
-IG
Well, Graf mentioned it before either of us. So it's really his great idea.
__________________ "I'd like to shake the hand of the genius who invented that - just the hand, after it's been cut off from the now screaming man."
I am definitely game for this, and would love to sign on as a "permanent member", althought I would bet that we might wind up with too many folk quickly.
I'd love to sit back and play an combat or two before I DM, as I've got three games going from the other side of the screen now.
Hmmm. I do love me some devilish fun. I guess I'll have to spend some time with that portion of the MM, preparing for my turn.
While I'm here, I'll add my suppor to the idea of 3 encounter blasts. It won't be that much more work to build, especially if you link them, but it'll make a big difference in terms of testing the system.
Sounds like 3 encounters with just short breaks between.
I'd actually like to run first; if that's ok. I have time now but will have less and less over the next few months.
WD glad to see you're so ready; personally I don't plan on revealing stuff to that level of detail (some surprises are good IMHO).
We need permanent members more now I think. And there don't seem to be a whole lot of people clamoring to join as new members.
For the first game what classes/races/roles do people want to play?
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Interested in playing 4th edition online? The Living 4th EnWorld Campaign is open! [character creationwikiforum]
I am in an interesting period of my life; I will post in games that I run three times a week (M,W,F); and try to maintain obligations in existing games.
...disquieting...
There was no end to his patience and endurance. He played day and night, his obsession was somewhat disquieting. It was less as if he were playing to dispel gloom or beguile tedium than as if he were giving himself up to the fangs of gaming devils."
Kawabata Yasunari - The Master of Go
I would really like to play a twf ranger. All my other characters (sounds more than it is) are either divine or arcane and all rangers I have seen so far are ranged.
Dare I to play a twf scimitar wielding drow...
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