The Troubadour's Travels - Low Magic [D&D 3.5/G'n'GR] [Recruiting]

[Stringburka]

A poet travels from village to village. At the light of fire, he tells tales of ancient wars, brave heroes and cruel deeds. His fingers dance over the strings of the lyre to bring out enchanting tunes, and his the songs that leave his lips will forever be etched in the memories of his audience. He travels through northern Consaber in the dying remnants of the late summer, staying at alehouses and inns where people flock around him.

But his tunes attract people other than farmers and artisans too; soon armed men are seen in the villages he's passed. They ask, threatens, and bribes the inhabitants to make them tell everything they know about the troubadour and where he's heading.

You have been employed by an organization to find this man, and find out why he's being hunted. Either you are members of the organization, or you are merely mercenaries hired by them. In the second case, you don't know much about your employers, except that the man who hired you looked both rich and powerful.


This is a low-magic adventure/campaign I'm about to start. It takes place in a half-homebrew version of a swedish RPG setting called Mundana, a medium fantasy but low magic world. Magic exists though uncommon, but wizards aren't very likely to adventure, as it is more of an academic pursuit and since using magic when stressed is very dangerous. Mages are extremely powerful, but more in terms of political power than spellcasting.

Setting: Mundana, as mentioned. Especially in the kingdom of Consaber.
Rule system: D&D 3.5 with Grim'n'Gritty Revised.
Technology level: Late medieval; about the same as D&D.
Starting level: 2, allowing for multiclass.
Allowed classes: Barbarian, fighter, monk, ranger*, rogue, scout, swashbuckler. No multiclassing penalties at all.
*No spells version from Complete Warrior
Allowed resources: Most things from WotC, as long as it keeps away from spellcasting or too supernatural. If you want something from a 3rd-party, just ask. I'm not very strict.
Attributes: Array, choose one of these:
15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10
16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8

Other home rules:
No alignments.
No critical hit effects as they are described in G'n'GR. I will simply decide a critical effect when a critical hit takes place (they do in the same way as G'n'GR, that is most often when you beat the defense roll by 10 or more).
Languages: There is no "common" language, each country has it's own language. However, the most common in the region this takes place is sabrian, the main language in Consaber. Also, literacy isn't free. One skill rank - understand and talk the language. Two ranks - literacy. And Speak Language is simply an intelligence based skill, instead of intelligence giving bonus languages. Much simpler.
E6. Max level is 6, after that you spend 5000 xp to get a bonus feat.
Flat Sneak Attack: Sneak attack adds +2 damage per normal 1d6 SA damage.
Alternate Saves Progression: Base saves equal half character level, +2 if any of the characters classes has it as a good save.

Game World and Character Thread

[Toptomcat]

Would you have a problem with the Book of Nine Swords if I stayed away from the overtly supernatural schools like Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit?

[Stringburka]

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

Would you have a problem with the Book of Nine Swords if I stayed away from the overtly supernatural schools like Desert Wind and Devoted Spirit?

Well, I don't have access to it so I can't really know what's in it, but it should be no problem when it comes to feats and skill uses . Just write what feats and the like do. For PrC's and equipment, I'll try to incorporate it, but it's to be on a case by case basis. Playable races are those listed though.

[Toptomcat]

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. The Bo9S is a book that introduces an entire new system for melee-types that mirrors spellcasting- with three new core classes and nine schools of spell-analogues called maneuvers. It more closely emulates the kung-fu-movie, 'showier' fighter-types that I prefer to play, but on closer examination of the classes you have listed I think its base classes will be out of balance with them in the level range covered by E6. Plus, I wouldn't want you to have to deal with an entire new system in a book you haven't read.
I'd like to give a monk a whirl, instead. Would you object to material from the Book of Exalted Deeds?

[Stringburka]

Ah, actually saw a few things from th Bo9S now, and you're right, it would be quite hard to incorporate it. I've got no objections to a monk, but BoED has a major problem - it's so dependant on alignment and the supernatural. There are no alignments in Mundana, and good or evil are not natural forces like they are in for example Faerûn. Good or evil might be goals for a hero or villain, but they don't carry any supernatural power.
If you could "convert" the good/evil aspect into a more mundane, albeit heroic, aspect, then it should be no problems though.

[wysiwyg]

I'd like to try for this campaign. I love E6 even though I never played it. I also like the low level magic world. Can I build a Warblade from Bo9S. There are no alignment requirements, and he will have no supernatural abilities to fit into your world.

I noticed that you have taken a 28-point buy for starting characters. May I suggest that you might consider a higher value since it is a low magic world and stat bonuses will (partially) compensate for lack of magical items. Maybe a 36 point buy. Either way it's fine with me.

I have actually made a PC already (for a higher level E6 campaign) that never got off the ground.

What's starting wealth like? Are there any maps/materials for this campaign?

[doghead]

Low magic. GnG. E6.

Lovely.

Good to see that someone is still carrying on the tradition. And an interesting opening as well. Sounds like the perfect game. Only wish I was in the position to jump in. Oh well.

I wish you luck with this.

doghead
aka thotd

[Stringburka]

Originally Posted by wysiwyg

I'd like to try for this campaign. I love E6 even though I never played it. I also like the low level magic world. Can I build a Warblade from Bo9S. There are no alignment requirements, and he will have no supernatural abilities to fit into your world.

I noticed that you have taken a 28-point buy for starting characters. May I suggest that you might consider a higher value since it is a low magic world and stat bonuses will (partially) compensate for lack of magical items. Maybe a 36 point buy. Either way it's fine with me.

I have actually made a PC already (for a higher level E6 campaign) that never got off the ground.

What's starting wealth like? Are there any maps/materials for this campaign?

Actually, I got my hands on a Bo9S today, since it seemed so nice. I'll okay Bo9S for both you and Toptomcat (bolded for Toptom to notice), as long as you keep away from the stances and maneuvers that are supernatural in nature (elemental damage and the like).

However, I'll keep to the arrays as they are. This is supposed to be a low-powered campaign, where the heroes are exceptional people, but you won't start out as the strongest people in a whole country. 36 points would be enough for having dual 18's, something that is WAY out of line with the campaign feel.
Most, but not all, opponents will be humanoid so you will be more heroic than most of your opponents. However, when something is not humanoid in nature, you'll have a reason to fear it.

The coinage is a little different from normal.
1 gold coin = 20 silver pieces.
1 silver pieces = 4 copper pieces.
One silver coin = 1 D&D gold coin.
However, bartering is more common than actual use of currency among civilians.

You start with equipment equal to 50 + x*5 silver pieces, where x is your xd4 standard gold pieces to start with. Monks start with 12 silver pieces. So you're heavily underequipped equal to normal D&D. Fighter thus starts with 80, rogue 75, barbarian 70, and so on. Your warblade would have 70.

Originally Posted by doghead

I wish you luck with this.

doghead
aka thotd

Thanks a lot! Hope you get more free time on your hands soon :3

[wysiwyg]

70sp? Can we even afford to buy weapons & armor?

[Rhun]

Originally Posted by wysiwyg

70sp? Can we even afford to buy weapons & armor?

You must have missed the "heavily under equipped" post. 70 is still enough for say studded leather armor, a shielf, and a sword.

Stringburka, sounds like an awesome game. If I had more time on my hands, I'd submit a concept in a heartbeat!

[Theroc]

I'd love to submit a concept, but unfortunately, I cannot access the G'n'G rules to see if I would REALLY want to, nor would I understand the changes.

If someone could PM me the changes, I'd be much obliged.

I'm thinking a Learam Fighter atm.

[Stringburka]

Wysiwyg: It should be enough for basic equipment. Metal armor isn't as common in the world as in D&D, so your enemies will rarely use them either.

Rhun: Hope you'll get time then! :3

Theroc: Wrote a bit in your profile. A léaram fighter sounds great though, I really hope you'll join

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Stringburka

Theroc: Wrote a bit in your profile. A léaram fighter sounds great though, I really hope you'll join

Yeah, as I said, I'm interested, my only hoop atm is accessing those rules. What you said actually made me even more interested, but I want to make sure I understand the full extent of the changes.

Sounds like a swordmaster might be fun in this setting. If I get my hands on the rules, I'll see what I can whip up.

Edit: Went rollin' through that thread and found the game in a .txt version. Will review the rules and see what happens in the next couple days.

[wysiwyg]

Here it is.

[wysiwyg]

There are some issues that I have picked up with this game system that need to be addressed. I did not read through the thread’s over 300 posts to see if anyone else thought of these issues, but it’s reasonable to ascertain that someone did.


Issue – Ignoring class HD & Level differences
While the life bar depicts a more realistic version of the character's well being than just a number, it completely ignores the fact that some classes are tougher than others or that characters get tougher as they progress in levels. One of the main differences between the classes is their Hit Dice that allow some classes to withstand more damage than others. The current rules ignore that some classes can take more damage than others – hence severely limiting these classes. Under the current rules a 6th level barbarian (6d12) can take as much damage as the frail academic 1st level wizard (1d4). The “Soak” feature that depicts how tough the character is does not cater for the class differences.

Resolve – Change the Soak Formula
The Soak formula can be changed to accommodate the difference.

The current formula is – Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod
Change the formula to – HD mod + Level mod + Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod


HD modifier is –
HD d4: -2
HD d6: -1
HD d8: +0
HD d10: +1
HD d12: +2

For multi-classed characters, the predominant HD of the character should be used (or an average rounded down).

Level modifier is equal to (Level / 2) – rounded down.
Level 1: +0
Levels 2-3: +1
Levels 4-5: +2
Level 6: +3



Issue – Too many rolls for a PBP game
The addition of the Defensive Roll will introduce another waiting period between posts. While it is fine for tabletop games, it will severely hamper the online play-by-post game.


Resolve – 2 Options
Firstly option is to have the DM make all rolls. The players will just declare what their planned actions are, and the DM will make the rolls on their behalf. This will expedite the game considerably and also eliminate any chances of players “re-rolling” their dice. The issue of trust falls onto the DM’s shoulders – not the players’.

Second option is the have a non-random Defensive Bonus – just like normal AC. Instead of rolling take 10 instead.

The Defensive Bonus of each character would be – 10 + Base Defence Bonus + Dexterity Mod + Size Mod + Shield Mod + Other Mod

[doghead]

For what it is worth, and you can do with it as you wish, I don't think issue 1 is really much of an issue. From my experience (I have run three GnG pbp games, iirc) those characters built for combat tend to be significantly 'tougher' as a result of their abilities, skills, and equipment: higher Defence values means that they are harder to hit; heaver armour, higher Con and the Toughness feat mean they can take more damage before being knocked down. DnD uses an abstracted value (HP's) to represent a characters ability to duck and weave, defect and take damage. GnG provides mechanics for it.

The defence roll, if handled by the DM makes no difference to the pacing of combat. The critical hit system is more problematic. Its not particularly pbp friendly. I eventually settled on using 'Bypass Armour' as the default critical hit, and handled all rolls myself*. If players wanted to use a different Critical Hit, they had to announce that when they posted their actions.

Using a fixed value for Defence would simplify things somewhat. But it would also take away from potential of the system by limiting the range of outcomes possible. I had a third level character drop an owlbear (a large critter, with all the advantages that that bestows in GnG) with one blow because he rolled well, and the owlbear didn't.

That being said, in later games I did go with 2d10 rather d20 for attack and defence rolls. While extreme high/low combinations were still possible, they were less likely. Which in turn put more weight on the characters abilities, skills and equipment. Which in turn tended to favour the PC's, as they generally had the edge in these areas.

doghead
aka thotd

* Eventually I just let slide the whole 'confirming threatened criticals' thing. While the system is very elegant, it is quite involved, so to keep things moving I just 'eyeballed' it mostly.

[Stringburka]

Originally Posted by wysiwyg

Issue – Ignoring class HD & Level differences

Spoiler:

This is simply not true. A 6-th level barbarian would have 6 base defense, and with these arrays probably at least +1 from dexterity. Also, he would have a soak value of somewhere around 6 (+4 from chain shirt, +2 from Con) supposing he hasn't taken Toughness. When raging, he'd have a soak of 8 due to con bonus.
A first level wizard would have a defense of maybe 1 (+1 dexterity), and a soak of 1 from con. If he has cast Magic Armor, he'd have a soak of 5.

If someone attacked these and rolled for example 20 on the attack roll, and dealt a base damage of 1d8+5 damage (average 9), they situation would be:
For barbarian: Supposing average defense roll, he'd take 9 damage +3 from attack bonus difference. 12 damage would be reduced to 6 after the soak, and to 4 if he raged.
For wizard: Supposing average defense roll, he'd take 9 damage +9 from attack bonus difference. 18 damage would be reduced to 17 from soak, or 13 if mage armor was up. He'd take more than double the damage of the barbarian regardless.

A situation much more like the one you describe would be the difference between for example a barbarian and a rogue, since a 6-th level rogue might have slightly higher defense (5 base defense +3 from dexterity) than a barbarian. Still, the soak would probably be lower due to lower con and lighter armor. And also, different feat choices. And also - equipment becomes more important. A barbarian might have to give up the versatility of light armor for maybe a breast plate, and might even consider carrying a shield.

So the differences in survivability is tied to BAB, Reflex, and Constitution instead of hit points - the two first vary between classes and levels, the last one should be high priority for anyone who wants to stand in the middle of a battlefield. It increases (compared to the other classes) survivability of classes with low attack bonus and high reflex saves - the rogue and monk only, in this case (or if the swashbuckler maybe have average BAB). Neither of these are excactly over-powered in combat as it is.

Originally Posted by wysiwyg

Issue – Too many rolls for a PBP game

[/quote]

Spoiler:

Yes, I can see this being a problem. One option might be to let me do all the responsive rolls such as defense rolls and saves, while the players get to do their attack rolls and such. I don't want to deprive the players of the fun in rolling dice, and I do trust you - it's not a competition anyway. That it's not a competition might be a reason too that I just care about decent balance - everyone should have their moment of glory, but having numerical balance all the way to the tables seems quite unnecessary. The fighter will be the best at fighting, the rogue will be the best at sneaking, and so on. This won't change.

Non-random defense isn't too good though, it takes away the whole randomness and danger of combat. Because of soak, having random defense is a key variable in being able to deal decent damage at all.

@Doghead: I though about using 2d10, but I'm gonna start about the same campaign as a table-top game too and thought that I'd do different methods at each version of it to see what difference it makes.

-------------

Updated the top post with some more info, especially two character classes to allow for different builds than just different kinds of fighters and different kinds of rogues.

[Toptomcat]

I need the name of Consaber's largest port city for my background. Can't seem to find any of the setting info online.

[Theroc]

String, I'm slightly confused by the updates to the NPC classes. are you suggesting we play an NPC class? Or are you just showing that to us so that we know what those NPC's are when we come across them?

Atm, I'm thinking of a Rogue/Ranger Learam... dual wielding Carwelan swords when available. Tendency to flank in group combats, to hit a bit harder, lol.

[Stringburka]

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

I need the name of Consaber's largest port city for my background. Can't seem to find any of the setting info online.

Aliana, Calria, and Uriens are all large port cities. Don't know which is the largest though.

Originally Posted by Theroc

String, I'm slightly confused by the updates to the NPC classes. are you suggesting we play an NPC class? Or are you just showing that to us so that we know what those NPC's are when we come across them?

Atm, I'm thinking of a Rogue/Ranger Learam... dual wielding Carwelan swords when available. Tendency to flank in group combats, to hit a bit harder, lol.

I simply powered up the NPC classes to make them into PC classes. You may play them if you want, or multiclass into them, or stay away from them. This is to allow for example someone who wants to play for example a field surgeon (expert or fighter/expert), merchant (expert or rogue/expert) or nobled warrior (aristocrat/fighter).

There will be a lot of non-combat encounters, so combat prowess isn't everything in this campaign. There will of course be combat too, just that some encounters might be best suited to stay away from the axes.

Yes, fighting with two Carwelans are not unheard of, though uncommon. Remember though that Carwelan isn't a light weapon, so you'll take the -4 penalty on two weapons together with the rogues BAB.