Hide - sniping?

Tess'har · Nov 22, 2003

Hi,

I have some trouble with the hide skill and hoped to get some answers from you freaks out there

Presuming I would play a shadowdancer, hidden in shadow and about to attack a foe. The Player Handbook (sniping) says that after my attack and in the same round, I can try to hide back in shadow but at a -20 penalty. Do I also incur that penalty as a shadowdancer (hide in plain sight)?

Another question. The Player Handbook says that sniping (the act of hiding imediately after the shot) is a move equivalent action, and also says that you can make 1 ranged attack when sniping. Can this attack be a manyshot? Manyshot = standard action + sniping (move equivalent)?

And yet another question. With the shot on the run feat, can I hide in shadows and move to a certain place, make a ranged attack, then move on and hide back in shadows, all in the same round? The Player Handbook says that normally, you make a hide check as part of movement and isn't considered as an action.

I would be glad if someone can help me out.

Stormrunner · Nov 23, 2003

1) Hide in Plain Sight allows you to "fade into the shadows" even when being watched. It only negates the "can't Hide at all while under observation" - it doesn't negate the "-20 to Hide if you betray your location by attacking". However, if you fail the roll after the shot, and your target sees you, next round you can attempt to Hide again - whereas for most characters, once they're spotted, they're spotted unless they can make a Bluff check to get the opponent to look away for a second.
2) It seems to be legal, but remember that only the first arrow gets sneak attack and critical damage, not all of them. You're adding an extra d6 or d8 at a cost of -4 to hit for the first die and another -2 for each additional die beyond the first.
3) Yes, but if your total movement for the round exceeds half your Move, you'll be at -5 on both your initial Hide check to move into position, and your after-the-shot Hide check - and it stacks with the -20 for shooting.

CCamfield · Nov 23, 2003

Side note - AEG's Wilds has a (3.0) prestige class called the Shadow Striker which gains the ability to make a single shot and then hide without the penalty.

Piratecat · Nov 23, 2003

Off to the rules forum. Pip pip!

Shard O'Glase · Nov 23, 2003

Stormrunner said:
1) Hide in Plain Sight allows you to "fade into the shadows" even when being watched. It only negates the "can't Hide at all while under observation" - it doesn't negate the "-20 to Hide if you betray your location by attacking". However, if you fail the roll after the shot, and your target sees you, next round you can attempt to Hide again - whereas for most characters, once they're spotted, they're spotted unless they can make a Bluff check to get the opponent to look away for a second.
2) It seems to be legal, but remember that only the first arrow gets sneak attack and critical damage, not all of them. You're adding an extra d6 or d8 at a cost of -4 to hit for the first die and another -2 for each additional die beyond the first.
3) Yes, but if your total movement for the round exceeds half your Move, you'll be at -5 on both your initial Hide check to move into position, and your after-the-shot Hide check - and it stacks with the -20 for shooting.

also remember you can't shot on the run and manyshot, so 2 and 3 don't go together.

Abraxas · Nov 23, 2003

Originally Posted by Stormrunner
1) Hide in Plain Sight allows you to "fade into the shadows" even when being watched. It only negates the "can't Hide at all while under observation" - it doesn't negate the "-20 to Hide if you betray your location by attacking". However, if you fail the roll after the shot, and your target sees you, next round you can attempt to Hide again - whereas for most characters, once they're spotted, they're spotted unless they can make a Bluff check to get the opponent to look away for a second.

I don't believe the -20 penalty should be applied to a character with the HiPS ability. They don't fade into the shadows, they just have to be near shadows. HiPS allows the character to hide while being observed. According to the rules as written a shadowdancer character could make a melee attack and then move & hide without any penalty. A penalty shouldn't be applied just for using a ranged weapon.

The -20 appears to represent the difficulty in hiding once the character has given his position away. Characters with the HiPS ability don't have to worry if the target knows exactly where they are when the try to hide. Heck they can wave at their targets, while wearing a lime green jumpsuit, and still hide while standing right next to them

All IMO of course.

Pagan priest · Nov 23, 2003

Shard O'Glase said:
also remember you can't shot on the run and manyshot, so 2 and 3 don't go together.

Where does it say that? I have heard it before, but I have not seen a reference to any actual rule.

Tess'har · Nov 23, 2003

You really are of great help to me

1) I would rather tend to say that effectively the hide in plain sight negates the -20 penalty for sniping… Like Abraxas said, the -20 represents the difficulty to hide once the character gave his position away, and as a shadowdancer you don’t have to worry about that.

2) I really don’t see why sniping and manyshot shouldn’t go together. According to the rules, manyshot is a standard action and sniping is a move equivalent action.

Keep on posting... it would be interesting to know how most of you handle this.

Pax · Nov 23, 2003

It's not sniping+manyshot that people are having a problem with.

It's manyshot+shot-on-the-run ... wether you're sniping or not.

Hide - sniping?

Tess'har

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Stormrunner

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CCamfield

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Piratecat

Sesquipedalian

Shard O'Glase

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Abraxas

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Pagan priest

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Tess'har

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Pax

Banned

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