Need help making a "Bard" class without the music

I really like the jack-of-all-trades concept of the Bard but I hate the "Bardic Music" aspect of it. So what kinds of abilities could you replace the music with? Some ideas I've thought of:

- The exact same abilities, just without music or poetics as the cause behind it. Replace ranks in perform with ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge: Arcana. What would be a good in-game concept for these abilities without the music?
- Supernatural and Spell-like abilities of a similar power level that go along a different theme- enhancing travel; finding things like secret doors, objects or people; gaining secret knowledge about an area or object; etc. What are some other themes this could have?
- bonus feats at the levels when significant muscial abilites were gained for the Bard

I'm sure there are better things you could do with the idea. Basically I'd like to make an "Adventurer" class with the fighting, skills and limited magic just like the Bard, but with something else instead of the music. And keep in mind, that I'm not trying to get rid of the Bard class itself. I don't want to keep anyone else from playing a Bard, I just want to make something similar, but on a different path, that I can present to my DM for me to play. So it's important that the abilities be evenly balanced with bardic music to show I'm just swapping one thing for another.

I'd really appreciate any advice or help you all can offer. Thanks.

Well I'd strongly consider adding in Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, a few Trap Sense +#, Evasion, and Improved Evasion. Follow the same progression as the rogue if at all possible.

This should make a very strong "adventurer" type class that is never flat-footed, always ready, lots of skills, reasonable combat ability, limited spells, etc...

If you add all that then it's too much better than being a rogue, or a bard even almost. You can't make a class that makes another class obsolete. But I definitely think there's room in D&D for a general Adventurer class- a class that can do a bit of everything but not as well as the specialists, and maybe has a small area of "something special" on it's own.

I know people will say that's what multiclassing is for, but that's not really an equal option. If you take 4th level characters, 1 each of fighter, rouge, cleric and wizard, and compare them to character that had one level in each of those classes- the multiclass guy is NOT gonna be equal to the others. Even though they're all "4th level". And I don't mean that he should fight, thieve or cast on an equal footing with each of the single class characters, because like I said, he should never outshine the specialists in their own fields, but there should be a class that can do all those things and not feel like a pathetic character. Which is what a quadruple multiclass in that kind of comparison would feel like.

So if you take the Bard, remove the music and replace it with something of equal value- you should have a viable and equal core class. Ideally it'd be nice to have several options for what you can replace Bardic Music with. Create something along the lines of the 2E Bard's handbook which had several interesting options for a generalist character that wasn't wandering thru a dungeon strumming on a lute! Mainly that's the concept that just bugs the heck out of me about the bard. Sure he can play a ditty that gives us all +1 to hit and damage (and let's not forget theat morale bonus to saves ), but I don't know, maybe someone can crunch the numbers to find out for sure, but wouldn't he be A LOT more help if he'd drop the stupid guitar and start swinging a sword!

FoxWander said:

I really like the jack-of-all-trades concept of the Bard but I hate the "Bardic Music" aspect of it. So what kinds of abilities could you replace the music with? Some ideas I've thought of:

- The exact same abilities, just without music or poetics as the cause behind it. Replace ranks in perform with ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge: Arcana. What would be a good in-game concept for these abilities without the music?
.

Click to expand...

Give your Bard Peform:Oratory and take the Leadership Feat when you can and there you have it
- a Military Leader issuing tactical commands to his troop
- a Priest inspiring the faithful
- a Revolutionary rallying the common folk to action
- a Spycraft-type Pointman providing support to his team

Tonguez said:

Give your Bard Peform:Oratory and take the Leadership Feat when you can and there you have it
- a Military Leader issuing tactical commands to his troop
- a Priest inspiring the faithful
- a Revolutionary rallying the common folk to action
- a Spycraft-type Pointman providing support to his team

Click to expand...

I like how this option gets rid of the singing and poetry aspect, but there are two problems I'd have with it.
1) A speaker that eloquent, and the examples you give are very appropriate, should be getting into politics not adventuring.
2) It's the same problem as the bard- there's still a performance. I can't imagine any kind of song or speech being so rousing and emotional that it would give the effects of Inpire Courage/Greatness during a battle or Inspire Competence during a skill check. It's just the idea of some guy playing cheerleader on the sidelines (and probably attracting unwanted attention) instead of helping me kill monsters. I can't help but think the benefit of his sword would be more helpful than his music. Plus I keep picturing Sir Robin's minstrals from Monty Python.

I'm thinking I should do away with the bard as a core-class and make it a PrC. Here's why- the 1st edition Bard was the only one that made the "enchanted music" idea work. Leveling thru fighter, thief and druid to become a "Bard" implied trials and hardships; learning secrets and ancient lore so the concept made sense. The 2E/3E Bard is just some tavern entertainer who goes adventuring and now he's somehow supernatural enchanting!? If the Bard were a PrC it'd have the semi-epic feel as the old Bard had and maybe those abilities would seem plausible. But as just a jack-of-all-trades who's slinging a lute rather than a sword, I just can't buy it.

But the versatile Adventurer part I like, and it makes sense. I want the same class without the stero-typical Bard aspect of it. Is it just me? Does anybody else feel this way about bards? Any ideas how to replace the "bard" part with something spiffy, but equal, and keep the rest- without overshadowing some other class?

I would expect, Trap sense minor, Movement bonus advanced lore abilities should easilly do it, add in something from the dungeon delver and you have an adventurerer

FoxWander said:

. . .
So if you take the Bard, remove the music and replace it with something of equal value- you should have a viable and equal core class. . .:

Click to expand...

why not just change the spell list so it progress as a mage?
or
Improve the BAB

change bard to minstral - he can still perform but not the special bardic songs and increase the BAB so its the same as a fighter. he gets fewer feats then a true fighter and fewer skill points then a rogue but more then a fighter. he is proficent with all weapons the bard normally gets so is still a martial character and gets his limited spell list. if you want to add a further restriction then require him to maintain a spellbook but allow spontanious casting and perhaps a couple of extra feats like the wizard gets.