trentonjoe
Explorer
In the description of Hydra it says that each head can make an AOO. Can multiple heads attack the same person?
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Hydra question (2003 thread)
- Thread starter trentonjoe
- Start date
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
ForceUser said:
Does anyone know if Cleave works against hydras?
ForceUser
Explorer
If you mean cleaving between multiple heads, the answer is no. The sidebar in the 3.5 MM states that the hydra is designed to reward characters with the Improved Sunder feat and player groups with good teamwork. Allowing a person to cleave or great cleave or whirlwind multiple heads as though they belonged to multiple creatures would work counter to that stated purpose. At the end of the day, the hydra is a single creature regardless of its heads' special properties.(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Artoomis
First Post
This could mean any of the following:
1. It can use all of it's heads for any AoO it makes.
2. It can make one AoO with all it's heads.
3. It can make one AoO with each head, but only one per opportunity per opponent.
Since no matter how you do it, the Hydra breaks the rules for Combat Reflexes, you can chosse which way to go.
Personally, I like number 2.
ForceUser
Explorer
No offense intended, but I believe the text is quite clear, and that Artoomis is wrong.Artoomis said:
Here is why: the little hydra has 5 heads and is CR 4, meaning it is an appropriate challenge for 4 4th-level characters. If all five hydra heads could attack as part of one AoO, they would inflict 5d10+15 damage, or on average, 40 points of damage. And they can do this twice per round. No 4th-level character can reasonably withstand that kind of damage, therefore, it's impossible that was the intent of the creature. Just impossible.
[edit: clarity]
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Artoomis
First Post
ForceUser said:No offense intended, but I believe the text is quite clear, and that Artoomis is wrong.
Here is why: the little hydra has 5 heads and is CR 4, meaning it is an appropriate challenge for 4 4th-level characters. If all five hydra heads could attack as part of one AoO, they would inflict 5d10+15 damage, or on average, 40 points of damage. And they can do this twice per round. No 4th-level character can reasonably withstand that kind of damage, therefore, it's impossible that was the intent of the creature. Just impossible.
[edit: clarity]
No offense, but you are drawing conclusions based on a false presumption. Many, many creatures are far deadlier than their CRs would seem to indicate if you play directly into their strengths.
The same could be true here. Avoid AoOs. Tactics - it's all about tactics!
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Elder-Basilisk
First Post
And what, exactly is supposed to be the Hydra's weakness? Certainly not magic or ranged attacks. With it's fast healing (10+ (# of heads)), it's nearly immune to both of those.
Attacking a hydra's heads in melee (even without Improved Sunder) is not playing directly to the Hydra's strengths. It's playing to its "weakness."
In any event, it's pretty clear that the CR would be wildly inappropriate for ALL hydras if that were the case. A CR "11" 12 headed hydra would deal an average of 108 points of damage per opportunity against AC 26. Even 11th level characters can't take that. And with Fast Healing 22, PCs won't make much headway doing anything other than going for the heads.
Attacking a hydra's heads in melee (even without Improved Sunder) is not playing directly to the Hydra's strengths. It's playing to its "weakness."
In any event, it's pretty clear that the CR would be wildly inappropriate for ALL hydras if that were the case. A CR "11" 12 headed hydra would deal an average of 108 points of damage per opportunity against AC 26. Even 11th level characters can't take that. And with Fast Healing 22, PCs won't make much headway doing anything other than going for the heads.
Artoomis said:
Camarath
Pale Master Tarrasque
I agree that any of these options are legitimate interpretations of the ability as it is written. I personally believe that it was intended to be #3. I believe this because of the way it was written in 3.0. I think that the additional qualification of "each round" make the most sense if the intend effect is option #3. Wile not absolute proof I think it is the best indication of the indented effect of this ability (that I have found).Artoomis said:
SRD 3.0 said:
Also, another option is that each of the Hydra's heads functions as an independent creature for the proposes of making AoO. That would mean that each head would get two AoO and that the Hydra could use any number of heads it wished to make AoO for each provocation, it could use all it heads or only a few and save the rest for later provocations.
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