A simpler system

Heh, I know there have been tons of discussions regarding this matter, but I am going to make anther one.

Many people have complained that the current versions of D&D are too complex, and since then some simplified versions have come out.

Now, I find myself wanting to play a simpler version simply because of the how much it seems to me all the rules of 3.5 bog down gameplay. I know there are some who will say 3.5 is not complex, but for me it is. It is also partially why I have stopped DMing for a bit, and will be a player.

Now, even as a plyer it seems that it would be better to have a simpler system, I mean, I like all the options like feats and stuff, but sometimes I just want to jum right into the game instead of having to worry about stuff like feats.

For those of you who have played some of the alterbatives offered, how did you like them? Oh, and how is the new basic D&D set that came out a while ago?

I have seen many positive comments made about "Castles and Crusades" which is a simplified game - it might be worth googling for information about that.

Cheers

I have especially considered something along the lines when it comes to PbP games.

Somehow, a lot of it seems... redundant.

I haven't actually played such a system, but C&C didn't look like it would work for me.

I can't stand the thought of giving up feats - yeah, there's too many, but not if you stick to the core rules (or at least to a small number of books). Furthermore, I hated what I saw of C&C's ability score system.

IMO D20 Modern is a simple system that still gives me what I want. I get to toss magic items right out of the campaign, remaining a huge source of complexity and annoyance.

I looked into a few different systems for the fun of it (didn't have much choice besides D20 in my area). The problem with going less complex is you make more work for yourself. The good thing about d20 is that there is a little bit of something for everything, and if you can't figure something out, it's real easy to make it work with the current rules.

When you get less complex you either sacrifice potential, or you have to make up for what the system lacks.

That being said, Savage Worlds would seem to fit what you're looking for. It's fairly simple and easy to use, works relatively like the D20 system only with d6's instead, and has ties into to just about any setting you can come up with.

I find the complexity of the game largely depends on the players. It greatly depends on how your group responds to feats/skills. If players stick to main books then things aren't so bad. If they start grabbing from other sources then things can get out of control. I know I might get flamed for this, but I find those who want to play the drow, half-dragon, 5th level psionic warrior, 7th level monk, 4th level ranger tend to up the complexity so to speak. As opposed the more vanilla type of characters.

Personally, I welcome a bit of complexity to the system. I think as long as you have a couple tables (like the reference charts provided in the downloads section of EnWorld, or index reference cards, or well organized character sheets) and a GM and players willing to improvise, the complexity of d20 becomes manageable.

Also, a lot of times when we talk about "simplifying" we really mean "speeding up rolling so we can get on to the good stuff." I actually think that many players welcome a certain level of complexity when it comes to character design in particular.

I know I'd like to change the free action/standard action/move action/full action system -- it just makes no sense. I would like to see the number of dice rolled in combat greatly reduced. I also think throwing hit points out the window in favor for Blue Rose (Green Ronin) style damage is a good idea. And I really like woodelf's alternate weapon proficiency rules.

Some changes that make sense to you aren't going to be simpler, but actually are going to be more complex in that they offer more versatility to the rules. And that's good!

Are you hooked to fantasy? There's a lot more rules-light stuff in other genres than in fantasy at the moment. I think this may be due to d20 - I mean if you want to make a fantasy RPG book, do you make your own rules light system and go broke, or make it d20 and actually sell? Well, its not that bad, but if you're making fantasy stuff you might as well get in on the d20 market.

My favorite at the moment is Unisystem. They have a variety of games you can get the skinny on here. There's All Flesh Must Be Eaten, where you play survivors after hordes of zombies take over the world. Witchcraft is a game of magic in the modern age, and Armageddon takes place in a fantasic setting where the last remnants of humanity battle against the forces of darkness. The Buffy and Angel games are *very* well produced and feature an even lighter ruleset. You could even kitbash together a Unisystem fantasy game with AFMBE and the Dungeons & Zombies suppliment. Or if you don't mind a little conversion work there's d20 Modern conversion in the back of the core book. If you want to check out Unisystem, the good folks at Eden have put up the Witchcraft corebook as a http://www.edenstudios.net/witchcraft/WitchcraftCorebook.zipfree download.[/url]

Another lighter choice is the new World of Darkness from White Wolf. This isn't the Vampire and Werewolf of the old days. In the nWoD, you start with the core WoD book. This lets you play mortals in a supernatural world. If you want to do vampire, you get the vampire book. The system has been simplified and cleaned up, and is a great book overall.

I've heard good things about Savage Worlds as well, but you'll have to google that up. Not played it myself.

-- more to gaming than D&D maddman

You asked about the Basic D&D box. It is purely a gateway to the books. Reduced feat and choices for 2nd level and premade characters. It does not go past second level - not an alternative to D&D's complexity.

Too complex?! What the heck is simpler than a system that uses one die to resolve actions?