Spontaneous Metamagic
- Thread starter shilsen
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jodyjohnson
Adventurer
Works fine for us.
Thanee
First Post
Well, they have included the spell level cap (maximum available spell level minus metamagic modifier), which is good, as it does only allow to cast metamagic spells you normally could, anyways.
Therefore I don't see anything inherently wrong with this, other than taking further away from the spontaneous casters (I don't think metamagic is meant to be balanced all by itself, but rather part of the whole balance between the classes and an additional equalizer for their extreme lack of diversity - even with that discrepance in the use of metamagic, most people consider the prepared casters to be "better").
It generally makes metamagic a viable option for prepared casters again, which is good.
But I'd probably consider to remove (at least partially, like adding one or two levels to the cap) the above-mentioned cap for spontaneous casters, if using that variant, to retain the class balance. More power for lack of diversity sounds like a fair trade to me.
Bye
Thanee
Therefore I don't see anything inherently wrong with this, other than taking further away from the spontaneous casters (I don't think metamagic is meant to be balanced all by itself, but rather part of the whole balance between the classes and an additional equalizer for their extreme lack of diversity - even with that discrepance in the use of metamagic, most people consider the prepared casters to be "better").
It generally makes metamagic a viable option for prepared casters again, which is good.
But I'd probably consider to remove (at least partially, like adding one or two levels to the cap) the above-mentioned cap for spontaneous casters, if using that variant, to retain the class balance. More power for lack of diversity sounds like a fair trade to me.
Bye
Thanee
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Liquidsabre
Explorer
Absolutely wonderful! Wouldn't ever go back to core metamagic. The metamagic feats above +0/+1 are actually worth taking and using with SM!
As Thanee mentioned, the spell slot increase for a metamagic feat still acts as a marvelous restriction (only able to cast metamagic'd spells as per the core rules, so a caster with access to 5th level spells can only cast 1st level spells or lower as Quicken spells).
Thanee is also dead-on about spontaneous casters losing out abit (already able to spontaneously cast metamagic spells already) by making SM available to all. Though quicken spell ability and Spontaneous Casting as a standard action are pretty nice. Plus being able to take Empower Spell feat twice for a total of 6 uses/day is also a neat and balanced option for spontaneous casters such as sorcerers who cast so many spells.
One interesting note is the use of the +0 spell slot metamagic feats, where before they could be prepared with all spells, or cast innumerable times/day with core rules. Making +0 spell slot MM use only 3/day may be a bit too harsh in my experience. I'd suggest going with a 6/day usage for +0 slot MM feats or simply making use of the +0 slot MM feats as per the core rules (must be prepared or cast full-round) for infinite use.
Not sure about how Heighten Spell feat would work in spontaneous metamagic, so there may be questiosn that arise there. We haven't seen it in play at the game table. At only 3/day I don't see anything terribly wrong with allowing it.
As Thanee mentioned, the spell slot increase for a metamagic feat still acts as a marvelous restriction (only able to cast metamagic'd spells as per the core rules, so a caster with access to 5th level spells can only cast 1st level spells or lower as Quicken spells).
Thanee is also dead-on about spontaneous casters losing out abit (already able to spontaneously cast metamagic spells already) by making SM available to all. Though quicken spell ability and Spontaneous Casting as a standard action are pretty nice. Plus being able to take Empower Spell feat twice for a total of 6 uses/day is also a neat and balanced option for spontaneous casters such as sorcerers who cast so many spells.
One interesting note is the use of the +0 spell slot metamagic feats, where before they could be prepared with all spells, or cast innumerable times/day with core rules. Making +0 spell slot MM use only 3/day may be a bit too harsh in my experience. I'd suggest going with a 6/day usage for +0 slot MM feats or simply making use of the +0 slot MM feats as per the core rules (must be prepared or cast full-round) for infinite use.
Not sure about how Heighten Spell feat would work in spontaneous metamagic, so there may be questiosn that arise there. We haven't seen it in play at the game table. At only 3/day I don't see anything terribly wrong with allowing it.
shilsen
Adventurer
Thanks for the feedback. The book does actually refer to Heighten Spell. You can Heighten a spell to the maximum spell level that you can cast, but it doesn't take a higher level slot. Nice option.
As for the spontaneous casters, as Liquidsabre mentioned, I think the fact that they can use Quicken spell with this variant makes up at least somewhat for it taking away from them losing some of their shtick with this variant.
As for the spontaneous casters, as Liquidsabre mentioned, I think the fact that they can use Quicken spell with this variant makes up at least somewhat for it taking away from them losing some of their shtick with this variant.
Ogrork the Mighty
Explorer
The Miniatures Handbook also has Sudden Metamagic feats that allow usage 1x/day.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Ogrork the Mighty said:
Unfortunately that's broken since it ignores the level cap. The version in UA is superior in terms of usefulness (3/day) and balance.
