John Cooper does it again [Libris Mortis]

Mystery Man · Nov 1, 2004

A couple thoughts.

If WoTC isn't reading these reviews they should.

The responsible parties (or irresponsible) should either be fired or reassigned.

Like the dude says (can't remember his name right now) on ESPN; Once is an accident, twice is on purpose, 3 or more times is evidence. Somebody needs to be shown the door. If there is anyone here who knows someone who knows someone at WoTC please point them to John's reviews.

JustKim · Nov 1, 2004

The only mistake in the book of any consequence to me John managed to miss completely, the erroneous listings for the summon undead spells.

Mystery Man · Nov 2, 2004

JustKim said:
The only mistake in the book of any consequence to me John managed to miss completely, the erroneous listings for the summon undead spells.

I use the PGtF Summon Undead spells.

Michelle Lyons · Nov 2, 2004

The truth of the matter, though, is that mistakes happen in technical books, whether they are game books, or math textbooks, or science manuals. It's not new, it's not out of the ordinary, and it's not unexpected by anyone. Whether you feel WotC is committing an egregious number of errors or not, the process of errors creeping into documents or past editors is not a new one. If you figure out a way to stop it, let the world know. I'm sure publishers everywhere will beat a path to your door.

Eremite · Nov 2, 2004

Of course, there will always be errors but there is a sloppiness creeping into the WotC books which makes you wonder about the whole quality control process. When I start to see basic errors of the sort that John Cooper has described, I then begin to wonder how solid the overall design of the product it.

Anyway, on the subject of Libris Mortis, it was good to see broadswords in the treasure of one of the mini-adventures in the back. Nothing like a throwback to 1E or 2E.... (insert rolleyes smiley)

Wombat · Nov 2, 2004

In general this is merely evidence of sloppy editing, not just in the RPG industry, but in general. There is too great a reliance on spellcheckers and, worse yet, grammar checkers, without the eyeballing of the text. Yes, there have always been errors, but the number of them of late in novels, technical books, and every other printed medium has gotten ridiculous. If we do not hold out for higher standards, the process will only get worse.

This is not just a harp on WotC, but on all publishers: Warner, Avon, Viking, Paragon, TOR, Norton (yes, even Norton, who once set the gold standard for editing). It is just a lack of will rather than a lack of skill. All the companies need to make this a higher priority for their products in general.

Liquidsabre · Nov 2, 2004

Wombat said:
This is not just a harp on WotC, but on all publishers: Warner, Avon, Viking, Paragon, TOR, Norton (yes, even Norton, who once set the gold standard for editing). It is just a lack of will rather than a lack of skill. All the companies need to make this a higher priority for their products in general.

The problem is how? Unfortunately, despite the poor quality in correctness of the book's text, buyers still value the content enough to buy the product. And likely will continue to do so...

...I tell you what though, if someone went in a cleaned up all the stat erros and things, I'd buy that pdf in a heartbeat!

hong · Nov 2, 2004

Mystery Man said:
A couple thoughts.

If WoTC isn't reading these reviews they should.

Yeah, and they'll see that John still rated it a 4/5.

I don't really care if some entries in a statblock are off by +/-1. I enjoy the gearhead challenge of building statblocks myself, and I don't take it so seriously that I must have it perfectly consistent with the rules: perfect is the enemy of good enough. However, I _do_ care if some boy wonder designer comes up with a brilliant idea that just happens to breaks the game. Undying frenzy, anyone?

GlassJaw · Nov 2, 2004

It continues to boggle my mind how prevalent the acceptance of low quality products is. It's not like WotC release one book with errors. Every product they have released in the past year+ is RIDDLED with errors. And they keep getting worse!

As I said in the other thread I started, no book is ever going to be 100% correct. I'm in the editing field (stuff that's a lot more complex than RPG's) and it's not rocket science. It just takes commitment. Yes it takes time but any time spent would be better than what they do now. Some of those mistakes are just ridiculous and very easy to catch.

Eremite · Nov 2, 2004

hong said:
Yeah, and they'll see that John still rated it a 4/5.

I don't really care if some entries in a statblock are off by +/-1. I enjoy the gearhead challenge of building statblocks myself, and I don't take it so seriously that I must have it perfectly consistent with the rules: perfect is the enemy of good enough. However, I _do_ care if some boy wonder designer comes up with a brilliant idea that just happens to breaks the game. Undying frenzy, anyone?

By and large I agree with your point but, reiterating the point I made on the other thread, the problem with these bad editing issues are that they seem to be symptomatic of a lack of quality control in the whole development process.

This is why we not only see bad editing as mentioned but also a plethora of poorly designed monsters, feats, spells, prestige classes etc.... There simply is not enough care and attention at each stage of the development process.

Any complaints I might make about editing aren't just about the editing, per se; it's about the breakdown in QC that the bad editing is a symptom of. I don't buy WotC books for good ideas and good art (this does not include Crabapple and Jarvis); I but them for good ideas -executed- well.

John Cooper does it again [Libris Mortis]

Mystery Man

First Post

JustKim

First Post

Mystery Man

First Post

Michelle Lyons

Explorer

Eremite

Explorer

Wombat

First Post

Liquidsabre

Explorer

hong

WotC's bitch

GlassJaw

Hero

Eremite

Explorer

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