Glumring (please critique, esp. CR)

Hey folks... a little background first. There is an area known as the Isles of Gloom in my campaign that is choked by a magical effect known as the Gloom that manifests as a strange mist with disorienting and somewhat hallucinogenic properties. It's generally a place that you would do well to avoid because leaving can be very difficult (visibility on a good day runs to maybe 100'). Anyway, the party imc is stuck there at present and so I'm working on gloom-native creatures... such as this one.

My primary concern is that the breath weapon is terrifically powerful, but I want it to be able to inflict wisdom (perception/self-control) damage enough to scare the pcs... and it worked (used these guys last game). I'm wondering if the CR should be a little higher? I really don't want to tone down the breath weapon!

Opinions? Feedback?

GLUMRING
Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 6d8+6 (33 hp)
Initiative: +3 (dex)
Speed: 30’, fly 90’ (good)
AC: 21 (+8 natural, +3 dex)
Attacks: 2 claws +8 melee, bite +6 melee
Damage: Claw 1d6+2 plus gloom, bite 1d6+1
Face/Reach: 5’x5’/5’
Special Attacks: Gloom, breath weapon
Special Qualities: Gloom form, cold immunity, blindsight, breathsense, DR15/+1
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +5
Abilities: Str14, Dex16, Con12, Int13, Wis10, Cha10
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +8, Move Silently +12
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Multiattack
Climate/Terrain: Isles of Gloom or any other region of Gloom
Organization: Solitary, pair, crew (3-5) or band (6-12)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; double items
Alignment: Usually neutral evil
Advancement Range: 7-9 HD (medium); 10-12 HD (large)
Description: A glumring is a strange bipedal creature that dwells within the strange misty realms known as the Gloom. Most common around the Isles of Gloom, they seem bent on expanding the influence of the Gloom, crushing hope and dreams. A glumring is rarely satisfied until it has broken the hearts of those around it. They are hard to see in the mists but seem to stand about 7’ high. Their flesh on their strange faces churns like the mist itself. Their skin and hair are shades of white and misty grey, and their arms are long and thin but surprisingly strong. Glumrings wear vests and baggy pants in almost djinn-like fashion.
Combat: When a glumring attacks it tries to affect as many foes as possible with gloom, spreading its claw attacks out. Glumrings make full use of their sensory advantages in the gloom, moving in and out of attack range like a wraith. A glumring generally uses its breath weapon on the strongest resistance it faces.
Gloom (Su): When a glumring strikes an opponent with a claw the victim suffers 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage and must make a Will save (DC13) or suffer a -2 morale penalty to saving throws, attacks, ability and skill checks, and weapon damage rolls (as if affected by the Emotion: Despair spell). This effect lasts for 1d6+4 minutes. A creature reduced to a wisdom of 0 by this attack dies and becomes a glum creature (see the glum creature template).
Breath Weapon (Su): A glumring can breathe out a 15’ cone of mist up to twice per day. All creatures within it suffer 2d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage and must make a Will save, DC14, or be dazed for 2d4 rounds- hopefully enough time for the glumring to finish off the lesser foes!
Gloom Form (Su): Once per day as a move-equivalent action a glumring may assume a strange, semi-gaseous form. In this form its damage reduction increases to 25/+2, it can pass through small holes and cracks, and all creatures within 10’ of it must make a Will save (DC13) or become shaken. The glumring may change back to its natural state as a free action. While in its gloom form a glumring gains the Air subtype.
Breathsense (Su): A glumring can sense the exact location of all breathing creatures within 30’, allowing it to hunt extremely well in the fogs of the Gloom, foiling most concealment and hiding, etc.


Here follows the 'glum creature' template.

GLUM CREATURES
Glum creatures are trapped in the Gloom, unable to leave or find their way out. Nor do they care to leave, after a time; the Gloom washes them with despair. A glum creature is formed when a gloom effect kills a creature by reducing its wisdom to zero. The creature dies, but one day later its body “awakens” as a glum creature. Enough of its spirit remains that it suffers terrible despair, but not enough to give it the drive to escape.
A glum creature appears as it did in life, but always surrounded by fog. Its eyes are blank slates of grey and it exhales mist with every breath.
CREATING A GLUM CREATURE
“Glum” is a template that can be added to any creature with an intelligence score except for a construct or plant. The creature’s type changes to undead if it isn’t already, and it gains the Air subtype if it doesn’t already have it. It loses the Fire or Earth subtype(s) if it has either or both of them.
Hit Dice: Change to d12; the glum creature looses all con bonuses as it has no constitution score (being undead).
Speed: The glum creature can fly at a movement rate of 90’ (good). If it already has a better speed and/or maneuverability, it keeps it.
AC: Natural armor improves by +4.
Attacks: The glum creature gains a claw attack if it doesn’t already have one. This inflicts a base 1d4 damage for a medium glum creature, scaling with size. If the glum creature already has a claw attack it uses the higher value for damage and it inflicts wisdom damage as noted above.
Special Attacks: The glum creature keeps all existing special attacks. A glum creature also gains the following other special attacks:
Waves of Despair (Su): A glum creature can radiate an aura of despair in a 20’ radius around itself once per day. All creatures within it must make a Will save (DC10+ half of glum creature’s HD+ glum creature’s Cha bonus) or suffer as if from an emotion: despair spell.
Breath Weapon (Su): A glum creature can breathe out a 20’ cone of mist twice per day. All creatures within it must make Will saves (DC10+ half of glum creature’s HD+ glum creature’s Cha bonus) or be dazed and unable to act for 1d4 rounds.
Special Qualities: The glum creature keeps all its existing special qualities except the Fire subtype or any special vulnerability to cold. It gains the following special qualities:
Undead: The glum creature has the undead type and is immune to mind-influencing effects, ability damage or drain, etc., etc.
Cold Immunity (Ex): The glum creature is immune to cold damage.
Gloomy Outlook (Su): The glum creature’s outlook on life has become glum and gloomy, especially considering its undead nature. This causes all divination spells or effects regarding the glum creature to give the most despairing possible answer.
Abilities: A glum creatures stats change as follows: Str+4, Con (none), Wis-2, Cha-4.
Feats: A glum creature gains the following feats if it doesn’t already have them, assuming it meets the prerequisites: Blindfighting, Blindsight 5’ radius, Dodge, Mobility.
Climate/Terrain: Any area of the Gloom
Organization: Same as base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature +1.
SAMPLE GLUM CREATURE:
The following sample glum creature uses a typical orc warrior (4th level) as its base creature:
Glum Orc Warrior 4
Medium Undead (Air)
Hit Dice: 4d12 (26 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20’ (full plate), fly 60’ (good) (base 30’, fly 90’)
AC: 22 (+8 full plate, +4 natural)
Attacks: Greataxe +10 melee or javelin +4 ranged
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+7; or javelin 1d6+x
Face/Reach: 5’x5’/5’
Special Attacks: Waves of Despair (DC12), Breath Weapon (DC12)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60’, light sensitivity, undead, cold immunity, gloomy outlook
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will -1
Abilities: Str20, Dex10, Con-, Int9, Wis6, Cha4
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +4
Feats: Alertness, Blindfighting, Weapon Focus (Greataxe)
Climate/Terrain: Any gloom land and underground
Organization: (Same as orcs, but this fellow is one of the higher-level ones)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class

Here I'm not so sure about the +1 CR...

this is my 2nd try at critiquing stats, so please excuse any of my mistakes. if i understand it correctly, the dc for abilities should equal 10 + 1/2 HD + relevent save (thanx drizzt!). therefore, the save for gloom and the breath weapon should be 18 (10 + 3 + 5).

Also, monstrous humanoids gain 1 feat every 4 HD, so if the glumring has to have the 3 u gave it, be sure to note that these r racial feats (i dont really know y this matters, if it even does...)

im still unsure about how skill points work, but assuming that the # of skill points for a monstrous humanoid is 2 + Int mod per HD, u should have 18 skill points, while im counting an extra 8 points. if u want, u could also note these as racial bonuses...

if im wrong on anything, just tell me! someday, i wont be so new at this

Well, a monstrous humanoid actually gets 1+int bonus plus one per four EHD, so that's why it has three... As for the skill points, it's 2xint plus 2/extra HD; as a medium creature this is 5, so total skill points are 26 (2x13) +10, or 36 skill points. Hey.. I guess I left some out, actually. Heh.. thanks for pointing that out.

The save DCs are actually 10+1/2 HD+applicable ability modifier, not save.

The formulas for the different monster types are different for feats, skill points, etc.

Thanks for the reply, but you didn't tell me what you think of them!

I really like the idea of the Gloom. Seems like the Isle of Gloom are a downright nasty and creepy place to be! I like the overall concept of the Glumring, and (as everyone here who knows me knows) I am a fan of templates so I like the Gloom creature, too!

You are right, though, about the Glumring dealing a little too much Wisdom damage to be balanced.

Think of it this way: with its claw attacks and breath weapon, the Glumring can inflict 4d4 points of Wisdom damage in a single round. That has the potential to reduce a character with an 18Wis to a drooling vegetable almost instantly.

I don't have the time right now to do a more detailed critique, but I will get back to this when I have a few minutes.

I would suggest, though, that you consider removing the Wisdom drain from the claw attacks, and/or take the breath weapon down to once per day.

sorry about that... i guess i need to bone up a bit more sorry, for not saying before, but as a fantasy buff, id say this is a very cool monster! u gave alot of detail about its habits and habitat, and it is really quite fleshed out to a sense of believability! as a dm, though, id have to reshape it a bit to use it, but im itching to find an excuse to!

wisdom damage

LOTS of stuff in the gloom inflicts wisdom damage; that's how it reproduces. (I'd best not say too much about this in case one o' my players checks out this thread...) The glumring is one of the primary mechanisms of it, and I like the mega-wisdom damage. But your point is well taken; in the game when I first used one the cleric was reduced to a low wisdom and virtually useless almost immediately. (There was at least one potion of lesser restoration in the party, however, but they forgot about it until the next game.)

I absolutely agree that it's very powerful; given that, is the CR too low?

And hey, Pyrobob, thanks, I'm glad you like it! As for the all the rules and formulae and numbers, there's an article from Dragon that is also (I think) on the Wizards website that has all the monster creation rules in it (if you aren't already aware of it), it's actually really cool. The rules for monster design make it almost like making a character.

Using the Challenge Rating Guesstimater I've got this so far...

Average hit points/4.5 gives +7
AC over 20 gives +2
Breath weapon - another +2
Gloom - another +2
Damage Resistance - +1
Gloom form +1
breathsense +1
cold immunity +2

Total of 18.

This gives a CR of 6, but close to 7.

I would have to agree with Blacksway. I would set the CR to 7. Sure the Glumring can drain a LOT of Wisdom, but characters capable of fighting a CR7 creature won't be very susceptible to save DCs of 13 and 14. There is a risk, but not so great that every hit by the Glumring will drain Wis.

Lower level characters should run in fear, however.

Thanks for the feedback! CR7, huh? Sounds right. I think I might even retro some xp to the pcs that fought these buggers, their two sessions in the gloom were devilishly hard on them. I'll post the mist spider they fought, too- that one almost destroyed the characters that it fought.

characters capable of fighting a CR7 creature won't be very susceptible to save DCs of 13 and 14. There is a risk, but not so great that every hit by the Glumring will drain Wis.

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If I read the writeup correctly, Erica, there IS no save for the Wisdom loss -- only the aftereffects:

Gloom (Su): When a glumring strikes an opponent with a claw the victim suffers 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage and must make a Will save (DC13) or suffer a -2 morale penalty to saving throws, attacks, ability and skill checks, and weapon damage rolls (as if affected by the Emotion: Despair spell)

Breath Weapon (Su): A glumring can breathe out a 15? cone of mist up to twice per day. All creatures within it suffer 2d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage and must make a Will save, DC14, or be dazed for 2d4 rounds- hopefully enough time for the glumring to finish off the lesser foes!

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Perhaps it would be less disastrous if you included Will saves for for half or no Wisdom loss from the breath weapon and claw attacks?

- Devon