[Epic] Allowing Spellcraft DC 0 Epic Spells...

As we all know, the Epic spell system is, well, a bit weird, to say the least. One of its quirks is that it – technically – allows spells which take no time to develop and cost nothing. I vaguely remember reading somewhere on the Wizards’ site – maybe in the Epic FAQ, I don’t exactly recall – that Andy Collins recommended that no spell with a Spellcraft DC of under 20 (or maybe it was 10?) should be permitted.

Initially, this seemed like a good idea to me. But then I got to considering ‘what if you did allow spells with ultra-low DCs to be developed?’ Would it really be that bad?

The Epic system is whacked, pure and simple. To make it work, any DM needs to invest a lot of time, and to make many tweaks. This, at least, is my experience. So, within limits, I allow DC 0 spells.

The idea that a powerful spellcaster can, on the spur of the moment create a spell effect is very appealing to me. It is ‘invented’ at the time that it is needed – a truly spontaneous, impromptu spell of enormous power. The Wizard (or Druid, or whatever) simply channels the magical energy, focuses his Will, and makes it happen. For me, this is a compelling archetype which is impossible to resist.


Consider this, for a moment:


Ngaaarrhhh!
Necromancy [Death]

Spellcraft DC: 0
Components: V, XP
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (see text)
To Develop: 0 gp; 0 days; 0 XP. Seed: slay (DC 25). Factors: 1-action casting time (+20 DC); no somatic component (+2 DC); increase spell’s saving throw DC by +10 (+20 DC); gain +10 on caster level check to overcome SR (+20 DC). Mitigating factors: 42d6 Backlash (-42 DC); burn 4500 xp (-45 DC).

Madness and anger consume you. You scream death down on a target of up to 80 HD/levels, who must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 30+ relevant ability modifier) or die. Your fury grants you a +10 bonus on your roll to defeat the target’s spell resistance, if it possesses any. If it survives the attack, it instead takes 3d6+20 damage. The toll on your psyche and body is immense, and you suffer 42d6 backlash damage.

XP Cost: 4500 xp



Broken? Maybe, but I don’t think so. Remember all Epic spell effects must be approved by the DM – this one is no different.

totally cool....even though I think the epic spell systems suxxs. Your stories always seem to feature very cool epic spells.....too bad they seem to come from someone who doesnt have to worry about xp cost anyway, right?

It seems to be fair, considering that most epic wizards can only cast about 2-3 epic spells per day anyways. Only problems I foresee a certain cthonic something using her automatic -100 to all epic DCs to her advantage

But otherwise it seems fair, at least giving everything a truly epic feel.

Sepulchrave II said:

The idea that a powerful spellcaster can, on the spur of the moment create a spell effect is very appealing to me. It is ‘invented’ at the time that it is needed – a truly spontaneous, impromptu spell of enormous power. The Wizard (or Druid, or whatever) simply channels the magical energy, focuses his Will, and makes it happen. For me, this is a compelling archetype which is impossible to resist.

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I like this idea as well. If handled properly, it can definitely enhance the flavor of a character.

Its cool, but doesn't it have the potential to slow down a game as a player starts figuring the spell out? If the player doesn't do it during the game then isn't the feeling of spontinaity lost?

Of course, in your game you have no fear of splitting the party up so maybe this isn't as much of an issue.

BiggusGeekus said:

Its cool, but doesn't it have the potential to slow down a game as a player starts figuring the spell out? If the player doesn't do it during the game then isn't the feeling of spontinaity lost?

Of course, in your game you have no fear of splitting the party up so maybe this isn't as much of an issue.

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I do not think that he's saying, "Don't prepare and check spells with your DM before hand". Rather, Epic Level spells take a long time to develop and research (1 day for every 50,000 gp in the research cost to be exact). A DC zero spell costs 9000 x 0 = 0 gp; therefore, it takes no time to research. This would be pretty spontaneous.

Erge

ergeheilalt said:

I do not think that he's saying, "Don't prepare and check spells with your DM before hand". Rather, Epic Level spells take a long time to develop and research (1 day for every 50,000 gp in the research cost to be exact). A DC zero spell costs 9000 x 0 = 0 gp; therefore, it takes no time to research. This would be pretty spontaneous.

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Right. The spell would be spontaneous, I'm thinking more along the lines of gameplay.

PLAYER ONE: Egads! A Worm-That-Walks!

PLAYER TWO: Fear not! I have mastered epic magic and I shall spontaneously create a spell to deal with the foe ... um ... can you chill on the playstation while I figure out much backlash I'm gonna be taking from this thing?

To the characters, yes this is spontaneous. Its the players I'm thinking of.

Torg had a good solution in one of it's sidebars to limiting the time it takes player to create spells on the fly: Make them play their turns in real time (in D&D this would mean they get 6 seconds per round on their turn) and allow them to cast the spell only when it is finished. Thus the casting time of the spell is determined by the skill of the player, not necessarily the skill of the character. So what happens is that the player works furiously during their turn and the turns of others to figure out their spell, presents it to the DM during their turn after it is finished, and casts it during that turn. If they aren't done figuring it out during their turn, assume they are still casting and move on.

This encourages players to know the system so they don't slow the game down for everyone else, and to prepare these things ahead of time, again to keep the game moving. It's probably not for everyone, but it worked great for me in Torg.

BiggusGeekus said:

Right. The spell would be spontaneous, I'm thinking more along the lines of gameplay.

PLAYER ONE: Egads! A Worm-That-Walks!

PLAYER TWO: Fear not! I have mastered epic magic and I shall spontaneously create a spell to deal with the foe ... um ... can you chill on the playstation while I figure out much backlash I'm gonna be taking from this thing?

To the characters, yes this is spontaneous. Its the players I'm thinking of.

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I suppose it depends on the player. I like having the spells I will be casting on hand for just in case. I do not think it would be totally out of line to prepare 10 or 15 spells in advanced, all approved by the DM, handling various aspects of adventuring. Coming up with a perfect spell would not be easy, you are correct. This is why logic would suggest having some generic "blow it to bits" spells already stated out. Tailoring a spell that smacks around a specific creature is a waste of OOC time and relies on the fact that in addition to master epic magic, you have also mastered monstrous lore and know what will slay the walking worm best.

Erge

I, for one, rather like the idea, though we all know that the epic spell system is rather screwy. If you use it to any real extent I advise that you fiddle with it a bit.