Dirty Fighting an Knockdown

Dirigible

Explorer

• Aug 16, 2003

• #1

Now, add mud and bikini fighting girls ot that equation, and it get's interesting.

Ahem.

This came up in a PbP game of mine : a PC has the feats Knock-Down (if he deals 10 damage with a single hit he gets a free trip) and Dirty Fighting (can make a full attack to make a single attack that deals +d4 damage).

My question is : should the extra damage from Dirty count towards the 10 point margin for Knock-Down? A strict reading of the words seems to indicate yes (it says 'an additional +d4 damage). However, my intiution says it should be no; the extra damage comes from an opportunbe knee to the groin or elbow to the nose, and wouldn't help unbalance the critter in that way.

In a similar vein, would sneak attack damage or flaming weapon damage count towards the margin?

Any consideration gratefully appreciated.

 

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Darklone

Registered User

• Aug 16, 2003

• #2

Actually, all damage should count.

Silly feat choice, btw

But well... I always like players who take not optimized feat selections. Style over power.

 

Dirigible

Explorer

• Aug 16, 2003

• #3

Yeha, that was my rule-wise interpreation too, Darklone.

What's silly about it?

He wields a halberd, has str 18.

That's d10+6 (+d4 if DF applies) dam per hit; that's 10.5 (or 13 ) damage on average. If he does 10+ damage, he gets a free trip attack (+4 form improved trip). If he trips the target, he gets a free follow up attack.

Silly? It's pure 100% munchkin, no additives.

 

Camarath

Pale Master Tarrasque

• Aug 16, 2003

• #4

Knockdown can not be used with Improved Trip.
Sword and Fist Offical FAQ states
Does the fighter with Knockdown feat get a free attack from Improved Trip against a creature that he trips due to a Knockdown?
No

 

Camarath

Pale Master Tarrasque

• Aug 16, 2003

• #5

Your player might want to see the Improved Dirty Fighting feat from the FAQ.

Impoved Dirty Fighting [General]
You are a master of the brutal and effective tactics of the streers and back alleys.
Perequisites: Base attack bonus +6, Dirty Fighting
Benefit: When you perform the full attack action you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melle attack deals extra damage, as follows:
Base Attack Extra Damage
+5 to +9 +2d4
+10 to +14 +3d4
+15 to +19 +4d4
+20 or more +5d4

 

Dirigible

Explorer

• Aug 16, 2003

• #6

Where can I find this FAQ?

 

Camarath

Pale Master Tarrasque

• Aug 16, 2003

• #7

Here is a direct Link.
You can also find it by going to WotC's D&D web site and clicking the FAQ link.

 

nimisgod

LEW Judge

• Aug 16, 2003

• #8

Knockdown has its own disadvantage in that if you fail to trip your opponent, he gets to counter trip you (just like in a normal trip).

Sure you could drop your tripping weapon instead, but in my eyes, it makes knockdown not really worth the feat slot.

 

P

Pax

Banned

Banned

• Aug 17, 2003

• #9

nimisgod said:

Knockdown has its own disadvantage in that if you fail to trip your opponent, he gets to counter trip you (just like in a normal trip).

Click to expand...

... which I think should NOT be the case. I know it IS, but ... it shouldn't be. Given it's the third step in a feat chain, eliminating the return-trip only seems reasonable, IMO.

Sure you could drop your tripping weapon instead, but in my eyes, it makes knockdown not really worth the feat slot.

Click to expand...

Sure it is! If you're going down the Improved Trip route, there's no reason NOT to get Knockdown, if you can expect your damage to usually (or always) break the 10hp-per-hit limit.

18 strength, specialised, medium Spiked Chain. Damage is 2d4+8 ... 10 to 16. You can use Knockdown with every hit, unless they have a DR you cannot bypass.

And remember ... Knockdown says you MAY make the trip attempt, not that you MUST make it.

 

Camarath

Pale Master Tarrasque

• Aug 17, 2003

• #10

Pax said:

... which I think should NOT be the case. I know it IS, but ... it shouldn't be. Given it's the third step in a feat chain, eliminating the return-trip only seems reasonable, IMO.

Click to expand...

I agree. I think it is more like a wolf's Trip ability than a normal Trip attack. IMC I think I am going to add the bolded sections of the wolf's trip ability to the Knock-Down feat.

Trip (Ex): A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+1 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.