Expert Tactician while invisible facing 4 flatfooted foes in reach--how many attacks?

Zaruthustran · Oct 3, 2003

Say you're a rogue with Expert Tactician. You're Improved Invisible. You successfully sneak amongst 4 foes, like so:

OO
X
OO

(Rogue is X)

Expert Tactician gives a free attack whenever your foe is denied his Dex. All the O's are denied their Dex (thanks to being flat-footed *and* thanks to the invisibility).

So, does the rogue get to make 4 Expert Tactician sneak attacks?

I think the rules say yes, but there might be a rule against # of allowed extra attacks. Sources wanted!

-z

Dwarmaj · Oct 4, 2003

Song & Silence has the latest version of the feat and only allows one extra attack against a single foe within melee reach.

jontherev · Oct 4, 2003

Zaruthustran said:
Say you're a rogue with Expert Tactician. You're Improved Invisible. You successfully sneak amongst 4 foes, like so:

OO
X
OO

(Rogue is X)

Expert Tactician gives a free attack whenever your foe is denied his Dex. All the O's are denied their Dex (thanks to being flat-footed *and* thanks to the invisibility).

So, does the rogue get to make 4 Expert Tactician sneak attacks?

I think the rules say yes, but there might be a rule against # of allowed extra attacks. Sources wanted!

-z

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure the feat says it only works once per round. Check the Song and Silence errata or DnDFAQ. It must, or I would have been using/exploiting it that way for 2 years.

jontherev · Oct 4, 2003

Dwarmaj said:
Song & Silence has the latest version of the feat and only allows one extra attack against a single foe within melee reach.

Yeah, like I said.

Zaruthustran · Oct 4, 2003

jontherev said:
Yeah, like I said.

Right on. Thanks!

-z

kreynolds · Oct 4, 2003

Dwarmaj said:
Song & Silence has the latest version of the feat and only allows one extra attack against a single foe within melee reach.

Yeah, one of the guys in my gaming group (the only one that could possibly be considered a power gamer) got really pissed off the first time he tried to use the feat and found out that it had been changed to allow only one attack, and only one per round. And when I say he was pissed...wow...was he _ever_ pissed. *shrug*

Darklone · Oct 4, 2003

The song and silence Version has Combat Reflexes as prerequisites, right? And BAB+2?

Hypersmurf · Oct 5, 2003

kreynolds said:
... and found out that it had been changed to allow only one attack, and only one per round.

Which is only one of the reasons why the Song and Silence FAQ answer (the Song and Silence FAQ, mind you, not the Sword and Fist FAQ) about combining Expert Tactician with Quicker than the Eye is bad, terrible, bad, wrong, and bad.

It's up there with the 3E Main FAQ answers about Bastard Swords, IMO.

-Hyp.

ruleslawyer · Oct 6, 2003

Hyp: Explain. Do you mean that the FAQ text is problematic because it provides for a potentially infinite number of attacks with this combo or because Exp Tac shouldn't be usable only once per round in the first place? IMHO, the feat is perfectly powerful enough even if it's only usable once per round; an extra sneak attack or stunning attack is pretty good.

Hypersmurf · Oct 6, 2003

ruleslawyer said:
Hyp: Explain.

The FAQ example shows someone using Expert Tactician twice in one round.

The FAQ example shows someone using the extra attack Expert Tactician in between the two MEAs of his regular action, rather than "before or after" his regular action.

The FAQ example shows someone using Expert Tactician against an opponent who is not, in fact, denied his Dex bonus to AC.

The FAQ example is bad, bad, wrong, and bad.

And terrible.

My theory is that whoever wrote that answer didn't actually have Song and Silence in front of him at the time, and was going from memory of how he thought maybe the feat might work.

-Hyp.

Expert Tactician while invisible facing 4 flatfooted foes in reach--how many attacks?

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