Atlas Games finds free download doesn't work...

Krug · Oct 14, 2003

Sad to hear..

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/3672.html

TheAuldGrump · Oct 14, 2003

I am sorry to hear that. While I did download the AM4 ruebook I already had a copy, and use the pdf version to work on material for the game.

I can also say that the free download didn't change my buying habits in regards to Ars Magica - I still buy everything.

The Auld Grump

trancejeremy · Oct 14, 2003

I downloaded the book, but I have little interest in Ars Magica. I just had several old Ars Magica modules that I bought as part of an Atlas games lot years ago, so I was curious as to how the game worked.

Still, just by going by what I've seen on ebay, I really don't think there is all that much demand for AM stuff. The prices for the rulebook (at least the softcover version) on ebay are very very low.

JohnNephew · Oct 14, 2003

trancejeremy said:
Still, just by going by what I've seen on ebay, I really don't think there is all that much demand for AM stuff. The prices for the rulebook (at least the softcover version) on ebay are very very low.

The rulebook prices on eBay may be dampened by the fact that the PDF is available for free.

As far as overall demand, I can report that the Ars Magica book we released within the past month (Sanctuary of Ice) has outsold the last four D20 books that we've published. Despite it being more expensive ($29.95 for 128 pp, hardcover).

However, a large part of Ars Magica's sales strength is outside the USA -- where d20 is weakest (and where the market in general is least impacted by the d20 glut).

Whenever a thread comes up talking about PDF piracy, a bunch of apologists leap forward to present the story of Baen, and use that to argue that sharing of PDFs of RPG books actually helps the publishers (even if those ingrate publishers are too myopic to see that it benefits them for someone else to give their intellectual property away for free). I thought it was an intriguing hypothesis, so I decided to put our money on the line by trying it with Ars Magica.

I did find some interesting things. For example, the geographical breakdown of downloads (US versus non-US) pretty well matched what we see in paper product sales.

But I was surprised that the release of the PDF correlated with a nosedive of sales of the printed rulebook, while there was NOT a comparable nosedive in sales of the supplements. This is not proof of causation, but it's significant evidence. Certainly, we did not see the increase in sales that was promised by the Baen-inspired apologists.

So, at a cost of thousands of dollars in lost revenues, I've unfortunately satisfied myself that, whatever may be the case in the mass market fiction field, and whatever may be the reason, free downloads of entire RPG books are detrimental to the sales of the paper products. (Partial downloads/teasers/samples are, as far as I can tell, a good thing.) I really wanted the results to be different, but that's what the experiment has told me.

trancejeremy · Oct 14, 2003

I think Ars Magica is something of a "cult" game. It has a strong, devoted following, which is why sales of new supplements are good.

Without the download, people would buy the rulebook to see what it's like. With the download, the curious people would just get that.

JohnNephew · Oct 14, 2003

trancejeremy said:
Without the download, people would buy the rulebook to see what it's like. With the download, the curious people would just get that.

Well, as a publisher, it now seems to me that those curious people who buy things just to see what they're like are are economically meaningful to me. In other words, if you are right, internet piracy (which is often defended on the basis that "they're just people who are curious who wouldn't buy it anyway"), harms my business.

DaveMage · Oct 15, 2003

JohnNephew said:
Well, as a publisher, it now seems to me that those curious people who buy things just to see what they're like are are economically meaningful to me. In other words, if you are right, internet piracy (which is often defended on the basis that "they're just people who are curious who wouldn't buy it anyway"), harms my business.

IMO this was a very bold thing for you to do, and (for what it's worth), as a gaming fan I salute your effort. It's a pity you weren't successful, and it's a shame you may have lost potential revenue.

It's probably not much colsolation, but I must say I've been very happy with the many Atlas d20 products I've purchased (over 20 of 'em) and hope to see many more.

spacecrime.com · Oct 15, 2003

JohnNephew said:
But I was surprised that the release of the PDF correlated with a nosedive of sales of the printed rulebook, while there was NOT a comparable nosedive in sales of the supplements. This is not proof of causation, but it's significant evidence. Certainly, we did not see the increase in sales that was promised by the Baen-inspired apologists.

If I may play a little bit of devil's advocate, though, I'm curious if some of that drop in sales can be attributed to stores backing off from ordering the book. Most booksellers are probably not aware of the Baen program, and I seriously doubt ANY of them care about it -- game sellers have proved to be a bit more reactionary on the subject.

On the flip side of the flip side, though, I had an interesting conversation with a guy last week; he was admiring the Ars Magica on my shelf and gloating that he had printed out the PDF in color. I commented that this must have been more expensive than just buying the book, and the reply was, "Nah, I printed it out at work, so it's on their dime."

I think it's clear that the Solution to the Problem is for gamers to lose their jobs so they can't afford to print PDFs, so they'll have to buy ... no, wait, there's a problem there... hmmm....

TheAuldGrump · Oct 15, 2003

Hmmm. I do know that my FLGS does not carry AM, I need to special order everything, in couple of cases twice. (The manager made the order list, then the owner dropped the AM stuff thinking it would never sell, without seeing that it was a special order. (My kindest thought about that was 'IDIOT!'))

I also wonder if tpart of the drop in sales was caused by people thinking that AM 5 would be out soon, since I seem to recall seeing something about the AM 4 PDF being free to promote sales of AM 5. Or maybe I am misremembering.

The Auld Grump

Cergorach · Oct 15, 2003

JohnNephew said:
Well, as a publisher, it now seems to me that those curious people who buy things just to see what they're like are are economically meaningful to me. In other words, if you are right, internet piracy (which is often defended on the basis that "they're just people who are curious who wouldn't buy it anyway"), harms my business.

Oh really? That's such a big shame...

Those books you print harm my environment, ever thought of that?

[/sarcasm]

I downloaded the book, browsed through it and decided it wasn't for me. I wouldn't have bought it to see how kewl it would be, maybe if it was something like $10, but otherwise you wouldn't have had any sales from me.

I think AM is a 'cult' game, as someone put it, cult games usually have a finite number of consumers. I think last period was reaching the limit on the amount of consumers that are willing to buy the core book, i'm wondering how many would have bought the core book if it wasn't released in pdf. A 9% drop in sales isn't significant IMO, it could be due to the decreasing popularity of AM, reviews that weren't as positive as the previous releases, bad economy, etc.

But i do think that releasing your entire rulebook as a pdf was a gutsy move, my respect for that! I would think that if you would consider any future actions in this theatre, you might want to consider releasing a 'light' version of the rules set as a pdf. That way you still have people who can have a taste of AM before they purchase...