BoED -- things to look out for?

This is the first WotC splatbook for some time that might actually see use in my campaign. The waffly bits about what's good and what's not I can take or leave, but the crunchy bits look quite nice.

Are there any things I should be wary of, though? I haven't really had a chance yet to go through it with a fine-tooth comb. What pitfalls full of cheese lurk for the unwary?

hong said:

This is the first WotC splatbook for some time that might actually see use in my campaign. The waffly bits about what's good and what's not I can take or leave, but the crunchy bits look quite nice.

Are there any things I should be wary of, though? I haven't really had a chance yet to go through it with a fine-tooth comb. What pitfalls full of cheese lurk for the unwary?

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Vow of Poverty for monks and sorcs can be bad, for the simple reason that monks don't really give up much for the benefits, and sorcs still have the option to buff themselves up with spells, thus gaining most of the benefits of the equipment that poor PCs have to sacrifice in addition to the VoP benefits.

Also, the Apostle of Poverty is a bit problematic for the same reason as the ur-priest (BoVD) is; classes that give 9 levels of spells over 10 levels can give rise to some crazy combos (notably, wizard/AoP/mystic theurge).

Finally, the Champion of Gwynharwyf looks slightly uber, since at first glance, it looks like this PrC confers all the benefits of progressing in straight barbarian plus additional goodies.

That's really it, AFAICT. Some of the exalted feats (Touch of Ice, for instance) are pretty powerful, but a) DM's control applies (except in the case of VoP) and b) they're supernatural abilities, which tends to balance their potency. I haven't encountered problems with BoED to date, though of course it's had a short play cycle. I think, in fact, that it may be the best expansion book put out by WotC to date.

a +2 market price item that paralyzes creatures hit with a DC17 will save on every hit gave me a bit of a worry [save to break out like hold person IIR].

An enfeebling weapon property that does STR damage on a hit.

Vow of poverty might be too good for Monks in standard games. Just say no to it in lower magic games.

The Fist of Raziel's permanent Magic Circle ability is supernatural. That means it's undispellable. Since they get it at 1st level, I'd say this is pretty awesome, given that it makes the Fist (and nearby allies) immune to all mind control and the melee attacks of all summoned or conjured extraplanars (except good ones), which, unless you are adventuring in the planes, means you never have to be worried about melee attacks from extraplanars ever.

Even an angel's protective aura can be dispelled.

Anyway, I've made it into a spell-like ability, usable at will instead.

HeavyG said:

The Fist of Raziel's permanent Magic Circle ability is supernatural. That means it's undispellable.

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SRD -a-go-go:


Table: Special Ability Types
Extraordinary Spell-Like Supernatural
Dispel No Yes Yes
Spell resistance No Yes No
Antimagic field No Yes Yes
Dispel: Can dispel magic and similar spells dispel the effects of abilities of that type?
Spell Resistance: Does spell resistance protect a creature from these abilities?
Antimagic Field: Does an antimagic field or similar magic suppress the ability?

SRD a-no-no.

So, you were saying?

DevoutlyApathetic said:

So, you were saying?

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And yet, the text over that says

"Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells."

This takes a bit of creative rules lawyering, but watch out for it:

The Nemesis feat (prerequisite: favored enemy class ability) allows a character to sense one type of favored enemies within 60 feet, even behind doors or walls, and to deal +1d6 weapon damage against creatures of that favored enemy type that are evil.

The Stalker of Kharash gains favored enemy (evil) at second level, which gives him evil creatures of all kinds as favored enemies. A player might argue that he can select "evil" as a type of favored enemy for the purposes of the Nemesis feat. This would allow him to automatically detect all evil creatures within 60 feet, and to gain +1d6 to weapon damage rolls against all evil creatures.

One of these days I shall find those who screwed up this revision and say very, very, naughty things to them.

Nice of them to not change the chart when they changed the text. Classy like.

So, spell-like? Does that really do much of anything?

There was one item that was like a Shield Other, expect you share HP with the people attacking you. Nasty, and only moderately expensive at 56k.

A number of spells reduce damage taken by half. Stacking these spells might be abusive.

Some of the sacrifice spells may be too good if the sacrifice is easily dealt with.

"I will nobly sacrifice myself to defeat the ... blah blah blah .... "
"But you'll die!"
"No prob, my buddy here has True Res prepped, and we should get a lot more than 25k for their loot."

Geoff.