Living Off the Grid

So the other day we're playing D&D (I know this is the Modern forum...bear with me, it's relevant!) and we forgot (gasp) our battle grid. Our DM has one of these 7 x 7 foot vinyl mats with the 1' squares that costs close to $50.00 or something. And usually we use our miniatures and counters on the grid like good little WotC drones.

But now here we are with no grid. And one of our group actually suggested not playing since we had no grid. (The adventure we're currently in is very combat heavy, and tactics heavy, and geek heavy). The DM, God bless him, said, "Screw the grid. Just use the table top. If we need to measure distance, we'll use a ruler."

Suddenly a whole new world opened up to us. And we realized: this isn't a friggin' board game. We have no need to hop pieces from one square to the next. Miniatures and counters are tres cool and come in handy constantly for combat positioning and other visual representation, but why be so anal about spacing that you arbitrarily put everyone's mini into 1' squares? Whenever spacing became an issue (say for AoO), the DM usually just ruled in our favor. But even then, it seldom became an issue because we *were* using miniatures for positioning; we just weren't trying to represent the game world in 5 x 5 foot invisible boxes. As a result, we loosened up a bit and lost the Intense War Game atmosphere that far too often pollutes D&D gaming sessions.

So here's the D20 Modern application: I've been buying up tons of IndyClix minis, which are strikingly appropriate for Gamma World (I'm a Gamma World fanatic, and a d20 Modern fanatic--D&D is [shrug] okay). I'm going to pop out the clicky-turny-wheel bottom part and paint black over the numbers on the base, leaving me with a sah-wheeeet miniature for Gamma World.

Then watch out, world...cuz our combats will be taking place off the grid. If distance ever actually matters, we'll whip out our tape measure (boy did *that* sound inappropriate).

At the hardware store I got another inspiration. Now that I'm living off the grid, why not buy some flooring tiles in various shades, colours, and textures (say, one to represent a dungeon, one to represent a decaying factory, etc.) to serve as the flooring for the minis? The stuff is like 69 cents per square foot, so it's cheap.

Death to the grid! Long live flooring!

Biohazard said:

So here's the D20 Modern application: I've been buying up tons of IndyClix minis, which are strikingly appropriate for Gamma World (I'm a Gamma World fanatic, and a d20 Modern fanatic--D&D is [shrug] okay). I'm going to pop out the clicky-turny-wheel bottom part and paint black over the numbers on the base, leaving me with a sah-wheeeet miniature for Gamma World.

Then watch out, world...cuz our combats will be taking place off the grid. If distance ever actually matters, we'll whip out our tape measure (boy did *that* sound inappropriate).

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See, I'm spoiled. For years, as I just mentioned in another thread, I was a player in a post-holocaust RPG. Home-brewed rules that, while flawed, worked well enough for us.

The coolest bit, though, was the way that we played. The GM owned a hobby shop, and had hundreds of dollars worth of terrain...and every single game that we played was with fully painted WYSIWYG miniatures on a fully terrained board. Trees, rocks, bushes, buildings, vehicles...all there, and it was great. No guessing if the wall would provide enough cover, or how tall the farmhouse was...we could look and see for ourselves.

I don't game that way any more. Don't have the money, don't have the space. But damn, I miss it.

But anyway...yeah, who needs the grid?

Rolzup

I've been playing on and off for about 13 years now, and until my first session with a new group, I had NEVER used minis for anything other than a paperweight and a representation of what my PC looked like.

Wargaming is all right I guess, and the whole "tactical" aspect is fine, but I find that it nearly doubles the time spent in combat, and in general only leads to that board game sort of feeling.

I had some great DM's that were descriptive enough to let us know what was in the room and where we were in relation to it, and we didn't have to measure the height of the wall in relation to our mini's to find out how much cover we had. We just asked "Would that wall give us cover?" and he said yes or no, and that would end the discussion.

Long live the game where people use imagination more than rulers and grids!

I'm surprised ledded hasn't made his way in here yet. Usually when someone mentions terrain even in passing, he's on it like bees on honey. I think he's got a bot that does a search on the boards for the words "terrain", "minis" and "painting techniques" every five minutes.

We began with a white board that we'd gridded out with permanent markers. Then came the battlemats. Then posterboard (again gridded). Finally ledded started making mats out of foamcore, spray affixing various terrain types to it (grass, water, dirt, stone, etc. - later came pavement, concrete and other modern terrain.) Added into the mix: Dwarven Forge Master Mazes, Hirst Arts DIY buildings (lotsa fun - lotsa work!), homemade trees, bushes and other foliage, to-scale toys found at the local Dollar Tree, Hero-Clix, and whatever else our obsessed brains can come up with. I think our proudest terrain moment came just a few weeks ago in an episode I was directing. This was a modern campaign set in our hometown (Bham, AL). The players had finally made it to the climactic battle and I had pulled an actual map of the area off the web and printed it out. As with any combat (or threat of such), everyone dashes to the terrain table and says "what's it look like?" I set down the map on the table (there weren't any spoilers on it) and said - "like that." About ten mintues later - honest to God - we had the thing built, down to the position of the trees and ice machine. We had to leave it up for a week so that ledded could bring his camera and get pictures (which'll get posted once Drew Id gets to that point in the story hour).

Kinda rambled there, but I do want to point out that as we've gone on, we tend to use the grids less and less. They come in handy for burst effects, but for movement and range factors, we just use tape measures.

Very cool. I'd love to have that kind of craftsmanship skill. As it is, I'm useless with terrain, but good with Photoshop. I tend to print out the big encounters on a 2x3 (or even 3x4) grid of copy paper with the gridlines already on there -- so you've got the yawning pits of doom and such right there on the floor, and you know how big things are.

In a perfect world, though, man, I'd love to trade in the grids for a few of those nice little measuring tape deals.

takyris said:

Very cool. I'd love to have that kind of craftsmanship skill. As it is, I'm useless with terrain, but good with Photoshop. I tend to print out the big encounters on a 2x3 (or even 3x4) grid of copy paper with the gridlines already on there -- so you've got the yawning pits of doom and such right there on the floor, and you know how big things are.

In a perfect world, though, man, I'd love to trade in the grids for a few of those nice little measuring tape deals.

Click to expand...

Granted, some of the stuff we do takes a little skill. The Hirst Arts stuff (look here if you're not familiar) takes time, patience and some skill. Mini painting is as difficult as you want to make it. But really, a lot of the stuff we use is "found art." Ledded has a nose for finding super cheap terrain stuff - cast off HO foliage, for instance. I'll make sure he finds this thread and posts up some pointers.

And lest ye forget, we've been actively gathering this stuff for 3-4 years now. There are three of us (ledded, fludogg and I) especially who concentrate on minis and terrain. Drew Id is the primary DM and thus focusses on campaign settings, plots, and other evil rat-bastard DM type things. Eyas is the fifth in the group and manages our ftp server and other electronic gear. Plus, each Christmas we all throw in 20-30 bucks and buy something for the group as a whole (in lieu of feeling obligated to get everyone individual presents). We've gotten three sets of Dwarven Forge that way, plus five Hirst Arts molds last year. We haven't decided where to put our money this year - maybe PDFs?

Feh. To an old-school wargamer like me, "no-grid" is far more superior to hexes and squares. The only drawback is the measuring part, but once you got it pat down, it's no biggie.

BTW, I suggest you also invest in a tailor's measuring tape. Also, create turning templates (to measure the distance when your mini or token/counter perform a turn), and area-of-effect templates (use transparencies) for spells or explosions.

Ranger REG said:

Feh. To an old-school wargamer like me, "no-grid" is far more superior to hexes and squares. The only drawback is the measuring part, but once you got it pat down, it's no biggie.

BTW, I suggest you also invest in a tailor's measuring tape. Also, create turning templates (to measure the distance when your mini or token/counter perform a turn), and area-of-effect templates (use transparencies) for spells or explosions.

Click to expand...

Ah - hadn't thought of the tailor's tape. Good idea, mind if I steal it? Can you give an example of a turning template? I've done a little googling and can't find an example. I understand the concept (I think), but I'd like to see one. And yep, we've been trying to accumulate AoE templates - haven't tried creating our own to any great extent tho.

pierceatwork said:

I'm surprised ledded hasn't made his way in here yet. Usually when someone mentions terrain even in passing, he's on it like bees on honey. I think he's got a bot that does a search on the boards for the words "terrain", "minis" and "painting techniques" every five minutes.

Click to expand...

Jeez man, what kind of guy do you think I am? That bot fires every *ten* minutes, or I'd be crushing the bandwidth coming into this building...

pierceatwork said:

We began with a white board that we'd gridded out with permanent markers. Then came the battlemats. Then posterboard (again gridded). Finally ledded started making mats out of foamcore, spray affixing various terrain types to it (grass, water, dirt, stone, etc. - later came pavement, concrete and other modern terrain.) Added into the mix: Dwarven Forge Master Mazes, Hirst Arts DIY buildings (lotsa fun - lotsa work!), homemade trees, bushes and other foliage, to-scale toys found at the local Dollar Tree, Hero-Clix, and whatever else our obsessed brains can come up with. I think our proudest terrain moment came just a few weeks ago in an episode I was directing. This was a modern campaign set in our hometown (Bham, AL). The players had finally made it to the climactic battle and I had pulled an actual map of the area off the web and printed it out. As with any combat (or threat of such), everyone dashes to the terrain table and says "what's it look like?" I set down the map on the table (there weren't any spoilers on it) and said - "like that." About ten mintues later - honest to God - we had the thing built, down to the position of the trees and ice machine. We had to leave it up for a week so that ledded could bring his camera and get pictures (which'll get posted once Drew Id gets to that point in the story hour).

Kinda rambled there, but I do want to point out that as we've gone on, we tend to use the grids less and less. They come in handy for burst effects, but for movement and range factors, we just use tape measures.

Click to expand...

And the funniest thing about that combat he mentioned is that it's a public park with a 60' iron statue, and we had it built, statue and all (including, yes, the ice machine, coke machines, mailbox, parking lot, street lights, telephone poles, construction equipment, trees, bushes, gift shop, etc)

Yeah, we have progressed and grown. A lot of the stuff we've done has been a progression of finding what works best in our game... sure, we role-play really well and use our imaginations, but at the same time we like to see the stuff laid out in a semi-realistic manner because it's fun. P, Fludogg, and I get a little obsessed with it sometimes (me pretty darn often). I have become the unchallenged master of finding inexpensive ways to try and come up with terrain and stuff (though it has added up to quite a bit of money over the last 3 years). Everything from cardboard foldups like Mordheim/GW/microtactix, to cheap plastic toys/O-scale plasticville buildings and accessories, to dollar-store 1/48 scale diecast cars and aircraft (including a bitchin' cool 18-wheeler I got for $3, which we will see soon in the SH), to discounted ebay-bought nice real stone or resin buildings, bridges, accessories.

I've done almost all of our outdoor terrain, including a couple near-vertical cliff faces that would measure about 120' tall in 'real life', trees, hills, bushes, brush, roads, fences, bridges etc (Fludogg has done some real nice hills and such). What we have found that works really nice for us and helps speed things up is this; I took some foamcore, and then cut it so that it was in 4 pieces that would fit over our entire table surface (it comes in pretty big sheets). Then I mocked up some dirt, stone, and water tiles in photoshop off of some very good photographic-quality free tiles I found on the 'net, dropped a light 1" grid on 'em and printed them out by the scores. Cut off the white part and you have a big stack of 8"x10" tiles that look very close to the surface you want to emulate. I took some 3M spray adhesive and sprayed the foamcore and then laid the tiles out on it. Holds like iron without warping. Now we can flip different sections of the foamcore so we can have part grass, part stone/sand, part water, etc.

I printed some more tiles in various floor/road sections (like marble floors, hardwood floors, roads, parking lot, etc) and printed them on 110 lb card. We lay those whenever we need to and they blend in quite well with the terrain. Toss on a bunch of homemade-flocked and cheap-bought trees that look very realistic (no plastic for us), a couple hills, a building or two, some other crunchy bits (campfire, wagon, stone ruins for D&D... mailboxes, streetlights, coke machines for modern... techno-cool stuff for sci-fi/Star Wars) and it looks nice. With the grid on the foamcore, we dont have to measure much (and we arent terribly strict about it) and can move all around on the table whereever we need to.

Occasionally OldDrewId will have some stroke of insani..., er, genius, and we'll do something like span multiple tables with a long-range combat. Once he had me build (in secret) 2 *long* bridges (over 3 feet each) which I did out of cut-up popcicle sticks and small round/square dowels, stained and then weathered. We ended up running a big battle in a huge underground cavern with bridges spanning multiple tables... kind of a 'mines of moria' feel. It was most cool. And geeky. But very, very cool.

Anyway, I've dont a lot of hard building and searching for perfect components and we now have a very nice setup that covers 3 sets of floor-to-ceiling shelves and several large shoeboxes of accessories, not counting the 2 or 3 shelves of minis that we have. The Hirt Arts buildings are the pinnacle of building coolness, though I havent done any of those (yet). So far, I buy a cool building to paint and bring over because I'm afraid of what will happen to my time if I start casting them brick by brick . But P and Fludogg have done some incredibly cool work with it so far and I look forward to seeing what they come up with in the future.

I'll move some more pics up when I get the chance, but my camera sucks in flourescent lights like we have in the room so it never does our stuff any justice when I take pics (plus, the camera itself just sucks).

pierceatwork said:

Ah - hadn't thought of the tailor's tape. Good idea, mind if I steal it? Can you give an example of a turning template? I've done a little googling and can't find an example. I understand the concept (I think), but I'd like to see one. And yep, we've been trying to accumulate AoE templates - haven't tried creating our own to any great extent tho.

Click to expand...

An example of a turning template? A semi-circle protractor, but the edges is measured in degrees not inches (or whatever unit of linear measurement you're using).

Star Fleet Battles. I believe one of the products contains rules for use with the ship minis and offered several turning templates.

Basically, draw out semicircles of various sizes, and mark the outer edge in 1-inch increments. Alternately, you might find a flexible ruler in an office store where they keep all the architect's tools in one section.

AoE templates can be done with a basic graphic tool program on your PC, printer, and plastic transparencies.