New Notes from the Bunker at WotC (12/18): Cinematic Maneuvers

Here's the link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/fb/20031217a

Interesting. I'm already using some of these rules, or rules similar to them, in my cinematic combat game. Have to remember about pulling up the rug, though. That's cool.

And using somebody else's gun in a grapple. Will definitely remember that one.

Some interesting stuff, although it did rub me the wrong way that Brawl gets a lot of these actions. It is probably for the best as they aren't something that typical martial arts teaches. Good stuff nonetheless.

Tellerve

EDIT: any thoughts on the inclusion of Improved Grapple as a feat in d20 modern?

I agree on the Brawl issue. Jujitsu TOTALLY teaches you how to use somebody else's clothing against them. And what about all the Jackie Chan movies, where he ducks under and around the guy and then pulls his jacket down around his waist?

It does mess up my flavor-change of Brawl to "pressure-point knockouts", though. But I can work with that.

takyris said:

It does mess up my flavor-change of Brawl to "pressure-point knockouts", though. But I can work with that.

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Blood and Fists made the whole Brawl/CMA/DMA thing more comfortable for me. You can take a guy who's into the Brawl-related feats and have him take Boxing --- no more AoO when he fights a Combat Martial Artist, and he can choose to do a little lethal damage rather than go for the big K.O. The brawler/boxer doesn't have all the benefits of being a "true martial artist," but he can still hold his own against a CMA guy.

That said...good article.

yeah, sounds good...i've been meaning to get Blood and Fists for some time now, but with a campaign not looking like it'll be starting anytime soon it isn't really a priority.

That said, I agree Takyris that Jackie Chan movies certain intimate that you could do these manuvers without being a "brawler". Heck, they are almost more schoolground tactics.

Tellerve

On my first read, I greatly disliked the article, as it seemed like a list of new manuvers for D20 Modern. I apprecieate the fact that he's setting us up with examples, but I'd like to hear a little more of the methodology behind making the different manuvers, and how to work on that sort of thing on the fly.

So, anyone able to think of a good way to differentiate the CMA chain and the brawl chain?

I don't know how to differentiate between Brawl and CMA, other than one is more of a disciplined training, while the other is undisciplined fighting, the kinds you see at nightclubs (or just outside of it) or in school yard.

I mean how often do you see a judo expert pulled a hockey shirt manuever, when all they learn is to grab your opponent's obi (or robe) and flip/throw him into the ground?

I enjoyed the article as well, despite the fact that I disagree with the initial statement that "all the rules are there".

Having been clotheslined, I can tell you it isnt a maneuver which inflicts no damage, but puts you on the ground, it does BOTH.

I could have told you when I woke up at any rate.

Chuck

Vigilance said:

I enjoyed the article as well, despite the fact that I disagree with the initial statement that "all the rules are there".

Having been clotheslined, I can tell you it isnt a maneuver which inflicts no damage, but puts you on the ground, it does BOTH.

I could have told you when I woke up at any rate.

Chuck

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Ouch, Chuck, you just brought back a couple painful memories for me

The worst hit I ever took playing high school football was a really hard clothesline that literally put my feet higher than my head before I slammed into the ground. Darn near blacked out from it.

As far as the brawl vs CMA thing, I can see these manuvers (and similar variations) in both. While they are definitely nightclub/back alley tactics, they are also firmly codified in several martial arts in various incarnations. The last time I sparred with my Judo buddy (having been in Aikido for a while) there was plenty of throwing around by various clothing items I can tell you.

So I dont think that necessarily you need to differentiate them (other than maybe in MA style or descriptive flavor), though one idea I would look into is letting the CMA guy do a little damage while the brawl doesnt, but they can both perform them.

Of course, for my 2 cents, I would just work the manuvers that dont exist into the system from Blood and Fists somehow, as I'm a big fan of how that system works seamlessly into Modern.

I do appreciate how he came up with already existing ways to provide these manuvers in Modern, though I still think that Blood and Fists gives a much more complete view of it.