Damage Reduction for Fiends

Matafuego · Jan 2, 2004

I don't have my 3.5 MM yet (I do have the PHB and the DMG) and I've been reading the "Conversion Manual" that WotC published and one thing came to my mind.

Both Baatezu and Tanar'ri (the big ones, not the lousy small ones) have DR that requires a "Good" weapon... How are they suppose to bypass this DR when fighting each other?
The Blood War is very important in most of my campaigns and I cannot believe that they will be unable to fully injure themselves just because they can't use Good Weapons.

Something isn't right there.

Am I missing something?

AuraSeer · Jan 2, 2004

Matafuego said:
Both Baatezu and Tanar'ri (the big ones, not the lousy small ones) have DR that requires a "Good" weapon... How are they suppose to bypass this DR when fighting each other?

They aren't. They just strike for huge amounts of raw damage, and live with losing some to DR.

You're confused because you're looking at the situation from a 3.0 standpoint, which assumes you'll always penetrate DR. It doesn't work that way anymore; in 3.5, the assumption is that you usually won't penetrate DR of most monsters. That's why the numbers have been reduced so very much.

Fiends are unbelivably tough and hard to kill, even when fighting other fiends. But the touch of a celestial or a holy weapon is painful to them, and causes more damage than normal.

James McMurray · Jan 2, 2004

There's also the option of higher-up demons and devils to actually have acquired a holy or sanctified weapon. Sure it pains them to use it, but it also tears through their foes like a hot knife through butter (pr at least lie a blessed weapon through fiends).

Sanctified is from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Its much cheaper than holy, but only deals an extra 1 point of damage versus evil creatures. It still counts as good for DR purposes though.

Matafuego · Jan 2, 2004

Thanks a lot fo the reply.
Maybe I'm thinking it too 3.0 but I have a party of evil characters that is "associated" with the Baatezu in the Blood War. And I don't see them dealing lots and lots of damage with their wepons, that's why the new DR thing threw me off. The Spellcasting types will have a hard time against the SR but with the appropriate feats they can handle it, but the Fighter Type guys are just... lost... aren't they?
Unless they take a Good weapon and take some damage or lose some levels.

James McMurray · Jan 2, 2004

A holy weapon will neer cause actual loss of levels, it would just put the demon at -1 to hit, saves, and skill checks. Not really that big of a deal when you compare the to hit bonuses against the ACs. Mechanics-wise there's very little reason for a combatant in the blood war not to have a good weapon.

AuraSeer · Jan 2, 2004

Matafuego said:
The Spellcasting types will have a hard time against the SR but with the appropriate feats they can handle it, but the Fighter Type guys are just... lost... aren't they?

Not really. In 3.5, DR numbers are low enough that a fighter can almost always do some damage, even if he doesn't have a weapon that bypasses the DR. The simplest way is to use Power Attack with a two-handed weapon.

Darklone · Jan 2, 2004

Right. Even a gnome cleric 9 in my campaign bashes happily for 30 points of damage thanks to the new Power Attack.

James McMurray · Jan 2, 2004

AuraSeer said:
Not really. In 3.5, DR numbers are low enough that a fighter can almost always do some damage, even if he doesn't have a weapon that bypasses the DR. The simplest way is to use Power Attack with a two-handed weapon.

And for demon versus devil combat the natural attacks of fiends of comparable CR will generally be damaging enough to outreach DR even when they can't overcome it completely.

jgsugden · Jan 2, 2004

When asked about this subject at one point, one of the people responsible for making this change to DR noted something to the effect of: "There is a reason the blood war is a long and painful thing."

Matafuego · Jan 3, 2004

Well, thanks a lot for the answers!!
I feel wiser now

On second thought I like the idea of Baatezu and Tanar'ri not being able to fully hurt each other.
And it will have my players thinking for a long while...

Damage Reduction for Fiends

Matafuego

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AuraSeer

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James McMurray

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Matafuego

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James McMurray

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AuraSeer

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Darklone

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James McMurray

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jgsugden

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Matafuego

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