Starting PCs with NPC classes--would it work?

Buttercup · Jan 7, 2004

I've been thinking about a campaign where a bunch of normal citizens decide to take up adventuring after starting out life as experts, adepts, warriors and so forth. Do you think this would work?

I realize there are some problems that would have to be considered. For example, NPC classes aren't as powerful, so I would have to scale down encounters if I wanted to keep them alive long enough to reach level 2. Then too, they would miss out on first level skill points for their future class. Would this need to be compensated for? If so, how? Experts, of course, can take any class skills they like, so a player who wanted to end up as a rogue could take disable device and open lock as class skills, I suppose.

What am I missing? Help me pick this idea apart, please.

PJ Mason · Jan 7, 2004

Buttercup said:
I've been thinking about a campaign where a bunch of normal citizens decide to take up adventuring after starting out life as experts, adepts, warriors and so forth. Do you think this would work?

I realize there are some problems that would have to be considered. For example, NPC classes aren't as powerful, so I would have to scale down encounters if I wanted to keep them alive long enough to reach level 2. Then too, they would miss out on first level skill points for their future class. Would this need to be compensated for? If so, how? Experts, of course, can take any class skills they like, so a player who wanted to end up as a rogue could take disable device and open lock as class skills, I suppose.

What am I missing? Help me pick this idea apart, please.

Maybe you could start them at level 2, which would make them equivalent of 1st core classes (Npc level -1 = core class character). Then you could treat them as 1st level regular characters in terms of what challenges to throw at them. Both the Aristocrat and Expert do pretty well for skill points and lists
Unless you are ruling out aristocrat in favor of normal citizens characters. Although it would probaly make sense for an aristocrat to be involved, he/she could fund the adventuring and could act as the catalyst for the decision for a bunch of townies to go exploring.

the Jester · Jan 7, 2004

I've considered letting pcs start out with 2 levels of an npc class or one level of a pc class before.... also with 3 or 2 (npc/pc).

Never having tried it, I can't tell you how it'd work, though.

EricNoah · Jan 7, 2004

I think it would work out pretty well, except for maybe the commoner. Experts make good building blocks for just about any character (use that one level of expert to get a whole bunch of ranks in skills you may never be able to buy as cheaply again). Warrior's not a bad place to start -- who can say no to some hit points and weapon proficiencies?

A lot of the "low fantasy" threads mention using NPC classes as requirements for PC classes. Imagine an expert who learns about alchemy, spellcraft, history, languages, arcane knowledge, engineering, anatomy, etc. and after all this study he's finally ready to start "being a wizard." That's kind of cool...

Emiricol · Jan 7, 2004

Download the net book for Midnight at www.againsttheshadow.org - they have a system like this already, which works pretty well. Might suit your needs. Simple, too

Buttercup · Jan 7, 2004

Jester, I like the idea of 2 levels of NPC equaling 1 of PC. And yeah, I would include Aristocrat as a possible starting class, though it seems to be as powerful as a PC class, so maybe the 2 for 1 idea won't work across the board.

The classes that would be hurt worst by this would be spell casters, but I like low magic games anyway, so I'm not so bothered by it. Besides, I can see plenty of possibilities in the idea of Joe Cobbler or Jane Dairymaid suddenly exhibiting sorcerous powers. And we all know that Quincy the stableboy was never much better than a thief, eh?

Bloodstone Press · Jan 7, 2004

I've been thinking of the same thing for a while now, but I haven't actually run a game like that yet.

I would suggest keeping a close eye on the CRs for the first few levels. The PCs will be noticibly weaker as NPC classes. I would also discourage anyone from playing a commoner. With the +0/+0/+0/+0 for their bab, and saves, plus the 2+int for skill points and the 5d4 gp starting money, they are likely to be very weak.

Numion · Jan 7, 2004

Buttercup said:
I've been thinking about a campaign where a bunch of normal citizens decide to take up adventuring after starting out life as experts, adepts, warriors and so forth. Do you think this would work?

I realize there are some problems that would have to be considered. For example, NPC classes aren't as powerful, so I would have to scale down encounters if I wanted to keep them alive long enough to reach level 2. Then too, they would miss out on first level skill points for their future class. Would this need to be compensated for? If so, how? Experts, of course, can take any class skills they like, so a player who wanted to end up as a rogue could take disable device and open lock as class skills, I suppose.

Why don't you just replace the NPC class level with the 1st level of their adventurer class? Just juggle the skill points around a little, and no one is hosed later on because of having multiclassing into a commoner.

Like this:
Level 1 Commoner -> Level 1 Wizard -> Level 2 Wizard

In effect, the commoner level is superseded by the wizard level. You'll have to tinker with the players so that no characters ends up worse once the adventurer level is taken - like HP going down if somebody goes from warrior to wizard.

Tonguez · Jan 7, 2004

I've done this in the past and it worked out well except that not all NPC classes are equal

Aristocrat ought to be a PC class- its almost that good
Expert gives a heap of skill points which is a real boon for PC classes that otherwise get few skill pts (like Fighters and Scorcerers)
Commoner is pathetic (and imho a waste of time)
Warrior is good and Adept I haven't 'explored'

BiggusGeekus · Jan 7, 2004

A buddy of mine dreams of a campaign like this.

Something to look out for: an adept who multi-classed to fighter could use wands of lightning bolt in full armor. Sure, they'd be divine spells and not arcane so the wand would be quite rare. But that idea might work for an NPC in your game.

Starting PCs with NPC classes--would it work?

Buttercup

Princess of Florin

PJ Mason

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the Jester

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EricNoah

Adventurer

Emiricol

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Buttercup

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Bloodstone Press

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Numion

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow

BiggusGeekus

That's Latin for "cool"

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