Grapple & Sneak Attack

Dax Doomslayer · Jan 21, 2004

Hi All,
I was wondering about the Grapple/Improved Grapple ablility for monsters. From what I understand, a monster lose its dexterity bonus when grappling vs. all opponents that it is not grappling. Because of this, does this expose the monster to a rogue's sneak attack? To play this out by the rules, if a dragon or purple worm has grappled another PC, why would the thief be able to get a sneak attack? Am I interpreting this incorrectly? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Kae'Yoss · Jan 21, 2004

I'm not totally sure, but yes, this seems to be the case. But remember that monsters often can take -20 on their grapple checks to grapple with just one limb, and then they're not considered grappled. Against the weaker types, this is still more than enough.

[Edit]It's limb, of course, what were I thinking??

Dax Doomslayer · Jan 22, 2004

Thanks KaeYoss,
That is a good point about the -20. So I guess my interpretation of this seems correct . . .

shilsen · Jan 22, 2004

KaeYoss said:
But remember that monsters often can take -20 on their grapple checks to grapple with just one limp, and then they're not considered grappled.

But what happens to those of my poor monsters who don't have one limp? Do I have to make them walk through spike growth spells and fail their saves in order to be able to grapple this way? And doesn't it make Long John Silver overpowered for his CR?

Okay, I'll stop

As for Dax's original question - yes, you are correct. A grappling creature does lose its Dex bonus and can be sneak attacked (except when taking the aforementioned -20).

Caliban · Jan 22, 2004

Dax Doomslayer said:
Hi All,
I was wondering about the Grapple/Improved Grapple ablility for monsters. From what I understand, a monster lose its dexterity bonus when grappling vs. all opponents that it is not grappling. Because of this, does this expose the monster to a rogue's sneak attack? To play this out by the rules, if a dragon or purple worm has grappled another PC, why would the thief be able to get a sneak attack? Am I interpreting this incorrectly? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Yup, you are correct.

This is also a tactic my 13th level melee guy has been using lately against high level rogues or barbarians, or creatues with a very high AC: Grapple them and try to pin them while the 11th level rogue shreds them.

Grapple + Improved Grapple + Enlarge Person + Ray of Enfeeblement on the bad guy is an increddibly effective tactic in 3.5

Hypersmurf · Jan 22, 2004

Caliban said:
Grapple + Improved Grapple + Enlarge Person + Ray of Enfeeblement on the bad guy is an increddibly effective tactic in 3.5

It works even better without Enlarge Person on the bad guy...

-Hyp.

Caliban · Jan 22, 2004

Hypersmurf said:
It works even better without Enlarge Person on the bad guy...

-Hyp.

heh.

Darklone · Jan 22, 2004

Duh

Except when he has to squeeze?

Kae'Yoss · Jan 22, 2004

shilsen said:
But what happens to those of my poor monsters who don't have one limp? Do I have to make them walk through spike growth spells and fail their saves in order to be able to grapple this way? And doesn't it make Long John Silver overpowered for his CR?

Okay, I'll stop

Argh. When I make typoes, I make the ones that count...

About those monsters: It's not something every monster has. They have to be advanced a lot (especially in age) to get one.

Grapple & Sneak Attack

Dax Doomslayer

Adventurer

Kae'Yoss

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Dax Doomslayer

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shilsen

Adventurer

Caliban

Rules Monkey

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...

Caliban

Rules Monkey

Darklone

Registered User

Kae'Yoss

First Post

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